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Forums - General Discussion - Do you believe in God? Why/Why not?

 

Do you believe in any god?

Yes 63 36.21%
 
No 111 63.79%
 
Total:174

Yes.

Why? Because i want to, i have faith.



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estebxx said:
Yes.

Why? Because i want to, i have faith.

Do you care if what you believe is true?



LuccaCardoso1 said:

Oh, morality can only come from a god? That's not true at all. Take some things into consideration:

1. Morality is not exclusive to humans. Read this article. Other primates were shown to also have a sense of morality, and we don't see them reading the bible or praying, do we? Primates have morality because it helps to reproduce and move on your genes when you don't go around killing everyone from your group. Sharing food makes it more probable that more members of your group will survive, trying to save a member of your group (and saving it) will make it more likely that you can pass on your genes. Moral genes were passed on because it helps the species survive.

2. Morality is subjective. If morality really did come from a god, everyone would have the same morality, right? So how do you explain slavery being a moral thing until a few centuries ago? How do you explain possession of women being moral until a few decades ago (and still being moral in some cultures)?

 

finalrpgfantasy said:

Agree.  You don't have to believe in God to know that stealing, murdering or lying is wrong.  This is common sense.

I would actually say the epistemic problems are more damning because they will cause moral problems given time, but if you want to focus on morality, so be it.

I don't mean that morality cannot be exhibited in other places, but that these are spurious from a larger scale point of view.  The moralities you can derive from atheism and agnosticism do not function to build societies with. Atheists in particular tend to be free with stealing morality ideas from theists because a few of the theistic morals work quite well. This can appear sensible to an individual, but the morality and the worldview have fundamentally different presuppositions about the universe behind them and one or the other will eventually get rejected. It's almost always morality which gets rejected, too. People don't like being told what not to do.

And of course, the rejection process causes massive social upheaval and often death in the process. Accepting an idea your philosophy cannot actually support makes you morally culpable in what happens when it is inevitably rejected.



Egann said:
LuccaCardoso1 said:

Oh, morality can only come from a god? That's not true at all. Take some things into consideration:

1. Morality is not exclusive to humans. Read this article. Other primates were shown to also have a sense of morality, and we don't see them reading the bible or praying, do we? Primates have morality because it helps to reproduce and move on your genes when you don't go around killing everyone from your group. Sharing food makes it more probable that more members of your group will survive, trying to save a member of your group (and saving it) will make it more likely that you can pass on your genes. Moral genes were passed on because it helps the species survive.

2. Morality is subjective. If morality really did come from a god, everyone would have the same morality, right? So how do you explain slavery being a moral thing until a few centuries ago? How do you explain possession of women being moral until a few decades ago (and still being moral in some cultures)?

 

finalrpgfantasy said:

Agree.  You don't have to believe in God to know that stealing, murdering or lying is wrong.  This is common sense.

I would actually say the epistemic problems are more damning because they will cause moral problems given time, but if you want to focus on morality, so be it.

I don't mean that morality cannot be exhibited in other places, but that these are spurious from a larger scale point of view.  The moralities you can derive from atheism and agnosticism do not function to build societies with. Atheists in particular tend to be free with stealing morality ideas from theists because a few of the theistic morals work quite well. This can appear sensible to an individual, but the morality and the worldview have fundamentally different presuppositions about the universe behind them and one or the other will eventually get rejected. It's almost always morality which gets rejected, too. People don't like being told what not to do.

And of course, the rejection process causes massive social upheaval and often death in the process. Accepting an idea your philosophy cannot actually support makes you morally culpable in what happens when it is inevitably rejected.

Can you define morality?



JWeinCom said:
0D0 said:

You're right. When the topic is enlightenment and science, they say they're all because of the modern era, but when the topic is slaves, then it was the Christians.

The era where the discoveries and slavery started was exactly the era where Christianity was falling as source of power. European rulers were turning their backs to the high clergy.

It wasn't the Christian Theology or the saints teachings that validated the idea that African people were inferior. It was science with their nasty race theories.

As a matter of fact, it was the Church who ended the slavery back in the ancient era of the Roman Empire. It was the modern era "let's free ourselves from the Church power"-guys that brought it back.

the Bible specifically allows slavery and instructs to take slaves from the heathens around you.  Christian theology does support slavery.  That doesn't mean all christians do, but if they oppose it it is not because of the teachings of the Bible.

You don't understand what you're talking about.  The only slavery the Bible talks about is not the same type of slavery that is ingrained into our brains (because it was the most recent).  It is not the same as what we did to African Americans a couple hundred years ago.  "Slavery" in the Bible is not even close to the same thing.

Have you ever seen a TV Show/Movie where people go out to eat, and when it comes time to pay, they realize they don't have any money?  Sometimes they dine and dash.  Other times, they work it off.  They may go in the back and wash dishes for a while until the debt is paid.  THAT'S the "slavery" in the Bible.  It is a repayment of debt.  It is NOT forced ownership and "we can do whatever the hell we want to you, because you're inferior".



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No. I was brought up Catholic and i always had a bunch of questions, that nobody could answer. I was just always told that you have to have faith. I needed proof, and obviously there is none to be had. I was in the church while my parents made me do so, until i was 18. I haven't stepped foot in a Catholic church, is over 22 years now. I believe more in the Ancient Alien theory, than anything else. I'm not completely sold on any one belief, though.



JWeinCom said:
estebxx said:
Yes.

Why? Because i want to, i have faith.

Do you care if what you believe is true?

I wanna believe it's true.

Is it true? I don't know but i want too believe in it, thats what faith is.



Does kratos count?



Those who believe, proclaim physical characteristics to God (Gods) . Not only do they depict God in appearance but they also go as far as to proclaim God's intentions and overall perspective or orientation if you will. Without ANY evidence whatsoever. What's even more remarkable is those who do not believe based on the very notion of lack of evidence, reference any and all religions they DON'T BELIEVE IN!

To me that makes absolutely no sense.

What they're really saying is they don't believe in YOUR God.

I for one, after years of personal conflict, have come to the conclusion that given all of what I CAN SEE there MUST be a creator. How did carbon make itself? How did it know it NEEDED to be carbon? Before the bang, what was surrounding those elements? It's a very substantial observation. How did elements know to separate from one another? Why isn't everything one big blob of existence? I could go on but I won't, I'll just say this.

Whether you believe or not, who are YOU to tell anyone what God('s) plans are for all of us? Who are WE to question or determine God's true intentions? I mean really, IF God exists do you really think God needs our approval for ANYTHING? I sincerely doubt so. I am alive. There is food that grows from the exact ground I came from.

If this as all at random, God, I should be so lucky.



Insert Coin. Press START. You Died. Continue?

Let's just say it's complicated..

I suppose you can say I believe in some sort of higher power or "force" beyond our comprehension, but I see it more like a semi-conscious set of universal laws like a complex machine that runs things, than a conscious omnipotent being that somehow watches over and judges people.

What I certainly don't believe in is that any religion out there is truth and has gotten it right. And there probably never will be one.

I guess Agnostic is the closest belief system I can associate with.



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden