Do not use links that lead to extreme political sided media if you want to maintain a decent argument.
Washington post? haha come on thats ridiculous.
NightlyPoe said:
He's technically in charge of the official proceeding. By being in charge, he can influence it or even issue orders. |
You are missing the point entirely. The law in question applies to persons being in charge of the official proceeding and corruptly attempting to influence it. Corruptly is the key word to this entire law. There was no question that the lawyer referred to in the NYT article had the right to influence official proceedings by filing lawsuits, but he was convicted of doing so with corrupt intent.
Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: 
; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for 
, let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia. Thanks WordsofWisdom!
If you think about it we would've never known about all his shady business deals if he didn't become president.
| deskpro2k3 said: If you think about it we would've never known about all his shady business deals if he didn't become president. |
Well, he was already being sued over Trump University. But yes, the additional scrutiny that a President and his associates are subjected to is one of the many, many things he didn't understand about the office.
Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia. Thanks WordsofWisdom!
NightlyPoe said:
I'm not missing the point. You seem to be missing the point that Trump officially runs the proceedings and, therefore, can run it as he chooses. If he wishes to tell his subordinate to let it go, that is within his power. Look, I spent all of 2016 trying to tell people that this was the sort of danger you get into when you give a person like Trump police powers. He'll use it to go after his enemies and will order people to go soft on friends. No one listened though. That doesn't mean that the power doesn't exist. |
OK, listen. This is what I am saying:
| Trump can lawfully fire Comey. Trump cannot lawfully fire Comey for corrupt reasons. If it can be proved that Trump's motivation for firing Comey was corrupt, then his action was unlawful under this law. |
Under the assumption that you've been paying attention to me at all, this is what you are saying:
| Trump can lawfully fire Comey, even if his reasons for doing so were entirely and purely corrupt in nature. |
I am also saying that what you are saying is completely false based on a plain reading of the law in question. Can you please stop saying "yes he can" and instead explain why I am wrong about the law I am basing my "no he can't" claim on?
(going AFK for one to three hours, take your time)
Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia. Thanks WordsofWisdom!
NightlyPoe said:
There's not really much to it beyond "yes he can". As I said, it's inherent in the power of the chief executive. It can't be stripped. |
And why is "firing your subordinate" more inherent to the power of the chief executive than "filing lawsuits" is inherent to the power of a lawyer?
[edit: Also, please note that he isn't being stripped of the power to fire subordinates. He is, in the posited scenario, being punished for the motivations he was acting under. He isn't just being punished for firing a subordinate, he is being punished for acting with corrupt intent while firing his subordinate. However, even in that case, he still has the power to fire his subordinate. The subordinate can't file an injunction against being fired on the justification that he was fired for corrupt reasons. He's fired regardless, but the president is then liable to be punished for doing so (in that scenario).]
Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia. Thanks WordsofWisdom!
NightlyPoe said:
Lawyers don't have inherent Constitutional powers of anything. You're kind of going around in circles on me. |
When, earlier, I specifically asked you to elaborate on what you meant by "inherent powers of the executive" [edit: specifically, why you were invoking them as the reason the law doesn't apply to Trump when it normally would], you replied to the effect that you simply meant the fact that he was the boss of Comey. ("He's technically in charge of the official proceeding.") Now you're talking about the Constitution. I feel like you failed to mention something. Please get to it.
Last edited by Final-Fan - on 26 August 2018Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia. Thanks WordsofWisdom!
EricHiggin said:
It's not like Trump out of the blue remembered he once had a fling with her and decided to phone her up and offer her hush money just in case. If you were her, and wanted something out of it the whole time, or decided since Trump was in an election and was vulnerable, wouldn't you pounce? It's not his fault she was going to come out and that the media was going to make a big deal out of it now, which you can bet they wouldn't have, if it was before he decided to run. Trump just needs to point out that it was a personal issue and he paid it to keep his family and business blind to the situation. The fact that she wanted to use his political nomination to get the money out of him has nothing to do with Trump himself. It was pure chance as far as he's concerned and without hard evidence, that's the way it will be judged. |
It's not Trump fault that he had an affair while he was married and they decided while running for the president he should get ahead of the story that could potentially come out and shut it down. Its totally his fault. Its his fault for the not one or a couple but many affairs he has had with every wife. If anything since he has cheated on every wife he has and we all know it, he could have saved himself some coin and just admitted it. You are basically trying to absolve Trump from any of his guilts, then the lies he stated when it was still found out and saying nothing was his fault. You have no personal issues when it comes to affairs as a President running for public office. If he want to keep his dirty laundry quite then stay a private citizen. What I find funny is another excuse trying to shift blame somewhere else for this man decisions. Since he had no intention of making payments to any of these women before going for President, it was done for the campaign no matter how you try to portray it. The good thing for Trump is that it still something hard to prove unless multiple other sources have evidence to the fact.
NightlyPoe said:
Article II: Section 1: Clause 1: The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. This establishes the president as the person in charge and as well as a separation of powers. |
Yes, you already mentioned the Constitution, but that is very vague in terms of being an answer to the question that I asked you. I am getting tired of asking you to be more specific. For example, on what do you base your position, if I am right that it is your position, BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T TOLD ME, that a law saying "don't abuse your power for corrupt purposes" is not one of the legitimate checks and balances the branches of government can and do exercise on each other?
When answering, please also address the fact that the Constitution explicitly says that Congress is involved in the process of appointing officers, so it's clearly not the case that they are meant to be totally uninvolved in the doings of the executive branch. Also, I would suggest that "corruptly" altering the course of an investigation would run counter to "taking Care that the Laws be faithfully executed", and therefore punishing the President for doing things he is not supposed to be doing seems entirely consistent with the wishes of the Constitution.
Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia. Thanks WordsofWisdom!
NightlyPoe said:
(1) It's specific enough. It says the president is in charge of the executive branch. Hence he can ultimately decide what gets investigated and what doesn't because there isn't an investigation anywhere in government that he is not in charge of. Your example of a lawyer has to do with an outside force. The president is an inside force that sets policy and priorities. (2) I ask you again, how is this fundamentally different than Obama ordering the relief of entire classes of illegal immigrants for baldly political reasons shortly before an election? How is it different than setting aside federal marijuana laws in states that have legalized it locally?
(3) Yes, Congress has a check when it comes to appointing officers, but they don't have a check on the removal of officers. They tried on Johnson and failed, and later the Supreme Court even ruled they don't.
(4) I agree. As a matter of fact, my personal threshold for impeachment and removal is much lower than most people's. But failing to uphold a presidential oath is not a criminal matter. I actually think it would have been quite appropriate to remove Obama for his refusal to uphold several laws as well as many judges who substitute their own beliefs for what the law says. Impeachment was meant to have more teeth. |
1. Are you saying Congress can pass no law restricting what the policies the executive branch does and does not pursue or how it goes about doing so?
2. It is your opinion that this was done primarily for "political" reasons (by which I assume you mean relating to party politics i.e. election-winning), but I think there is a pretty reasonable case to be made that any such benefit was a "side benefit" of what the President already wanted to do for policy reasons. Even if the timing was entirely political in that sense that doesn't necessarily mean the thing itself was political—the Emancipation Proclamation is a good example of this concept at work.
3. Fair enough.
4. My point is that if the president is acting contrary to his constitutional oath, then how can the very same act be constitutionally protected from being named by Congress as a criminal act?
Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia. Thanks WordsofWisdom!
About Us |
Terms of Use |
Privacy Policy |
Advertise |
Staff |
Contact
Display As Desktop
Display As Mobile
© 2006-2026 VGChartz Ltd. All rights reserved.
