DonFerrari said:

For you to say it's effective you have the burden of proof that they don't count the digital sales on the bundle, also have to prove Xbox sales improved long term and also that SW for 3rd parties increased. All we have is opposite of that, so please bring the sources.

BoseDK said:

The fact that bundled codes are counted on VGC is very obvious, just one example should prove it beyond a shadow of doubt.

Assassin's Creed: Unity. According to VGC this game sold just over 4 million on PS4 and over 3.5 million on XB1. When all other games can't manage to sell even 50% of PS4 numbers, this one sold almost 90% of PS4 numbers. How? because it was bundled heavily with the XB1, and yes it was a digital code, you can always get digital codes of this game for XB1 for a dollar or two on CDKeys because there are so many of them out there that no one wants.

It's $1.69 right now:

https://www.cdkeys.com/xbox-live/games/assassin-s-creed-unity-xbox-one

If VGC didn't count bundled codes then Unity numbers for XB1 of VGC would be next to nothing since the digital code has been sold for dirt cheap, why would anyone buy the physical disc let alone buy it more than any other game on XB1 compared to PS4.

You should try Google sometime, you can probably educate yourself, now ill only do this for you this time. Keep in mind the X is $100 more than the Pro as well.

https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/gaming/918462/Xbox-One-X-vs-PS4-Pro-sales-Microsoft-Sony-next-gen-PS5

Like I said, MS already have a good marketing phrase for 3rd party games, they don't need another, unless you are saying the X1X flopped..

Why do you keep bringing up game codes? what does that have to do with MS marketing phrases? Lets get back on topic.

I have family that work at Gamestop, and they claim none of the digital codes count as software sales when selling bundles in stores on there system. Now I don't know how VGChartz gathers there info, but my only guess is that they count how many bundles are sold for that game and do the maths.. however considering we don't have official numbers from MS, I have no idea how its worked out.

Now like I said to Don, MS already have a coined phrase for 3rd party games which has worked out well for there latest system. They use the term all the time at E3 too.

DonFerrari said:

So you say you are going to educate me and you provide that X1X sold better than PS4Pro launch aligned in USA. How does that make X1X sell more than PS4Pro in total and WW? As already prove to you since X1X launched X1 total has been 7M, while PS4Pro sold over 8M alone. So no, the numbers still doesn't give X1X a victory. Unless you consider selling more at launch in a single country is all you need to declare victory. Shall we remind that X1 outsold PS4 in first couple weeks in USA, but then today we are WW at over 2:1 total and 3:1 weekly?

And he brought the game codes because you wanted to say VGC doesn't count those sales and that is why Xbox games were lower in representation in VGC SW sales database. So that would show you wrong, that may be the reason why you want to ignore it.

Like always this convo has gone past the topic.

Do you think the X is a flop? Please answer that question because that will end our debate right here.

Also I am not just going to take some random guys words that digital codes count as software sales because by major outlets they don't include codes in there sales figures. Id take someone that works in the industry than some guy who said that "Assassins Creed HAD to include bundles because its impossible that a X1 game can come close to a PS4 title logic." Even though we have seen Destiny outsell the PS4 version in its 1st year on X1 and the PS4 had Destiny bundled to the heavens. So his point is flawed. Maybe just maybe more gamers on X1 like Assassins Creed more.. I don't really know, maybe the codes were counted and I quite honestly don't care. It has nothing to do with our debate.

Why do you always have to compare PS4 to X1. Lets take into account that the X1X is a more expensive system, and is piggy backing a console with less hype behind it. Id say the marketing has worked wonders for the X1X and its clearly the reason MS still market there 3rd party games as such. Its effective, its the truth and its got a lot of punch behind it. X1X was never suppose to outsell the Pro, even MS came out and said the X is in a different league to the Pro, meaning there not comparable because one is a premium product while the other is just a rehash.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/xbox-chief-phil-spencer-says-xbox-one-x-is-in-a-different-league-compared-to-ps4-pro-2017-6?r=UK&IR=T

Xbox chief Phil Spencer does not think of the PlayStation 4 Pro (PS4 Pro) as a direct competitor to the just-announced Xbox One X.

But typical, lets compare products that even the businesses themselves say we don't compare them. So lets drop the subject now.

OT - You claimed MS coin too many phrases, and I clearly said MS already have an effective marketing phrase for there 3rd party games. Why this has lead to a PS4 vs X1 sales comparison mind baffles me, is that the only think you got to fall back on is sales? MS will market those games announced in this thread as "Best played on Xbox" ill wait and see if they make a new term for these so called games coming to Xbox that you seem to think they will do because its MS ,and they make phrases up all the time.

Like always this convo has gone past the topic.

Do you think the X is a flop? Please answer that question because that will end our debate right here.

Also I am not just going to take some random guys words that digital codes count as software sales because by major outlets they don't include codes in there sales figures. Id take someone that works in the industry than some guy who said that "Assassins Creed HAD to include bundles because its impossible that a X1 game can come close to a PS4 title logic." Even though we have seen Destiny outsell the PS4 version in its 1st year on X1 and the PS4 had Destiny bundled to the heavens. So his point is flawed. Maybe just maybe more gamers on X1 like Assassins Creed more.. I don't really know, maybe the codes were counted and I quite honestly don't care. It has nothing to do with our debate.

Why do you always have to compare PS4 to X1. Lets take into account that the X1X is a more expensive system, and is piggy backing a console with less hype behind it. Id say the marketing has worked wonders for the X1X and its clearly the reason MS still market there 3rd party games as such. Its effective, its the truth and its got a lot of punch behind it. X1X was never suppose to outsell the Pro, even MS came out and said the X is in a different league to the Pro, meaning there not comparable because one is a premium product while the other is just a rehash.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/xbox-chief-phil-spencer-says-xbox-one-x-is-in-a-different-league-compared-to-ps4-pro-2017-6?r=UK&IR=T

Xbox chief Phil Spencer does not think of the PlayStation 4 Pro (PS4 Pro) as a direct competitor to the just-announced Xbox One X.

But typical, lets compare products that even the businesses themselves say we don't compare them. So lets drop the subject now.

OT - You claimed MS coin too many phrases, and I clearly said MS already have an effective marketing phrase for there 3rd party games. Why this has lead to a PS4 vs X1 sales comparison mind baffles me, is that the only think you got to fall back on is sales? MS will market those games announced in this thread as "Best played on Xbox" ill wait and see if they make a new term for these so called games coming to Xbox that you seem to think they will do because its MS ,and they make phrases up all the time.

DonFerrari said:

I think X1 sold much less than last gen and MS had to change all their PR because of it and its exclusives are on much lower demand than last gen. But since they still make money on the system I wouldn't say it's a flop.

So the X1X isn't a flop in your eyes, So the marketing behind the X worked. That's all I needed to know.