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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox Scarlet Rumor: Traditional and streaming consoles at launch.

HollyGamer on 24 July 2018
Azzanation said:
HollyGamer said:

Actually , in my opinion it's  smart move, the streaming device will be a super cheap one. I can see PS will follow the same suit because PS already has the foundation with PS Now and they had one before with PS Vita TV

PSNow is not a world wide service. From what I believe PSNow runs off Gaikai which is only used in some parts of the world. From memory Gaikai cost Sony roughly $500m. Now if you put that into comparison with Azure, that cost MS $30b which is accessible world wide. Something I don't think Sony can afford unless they rent out Amazon or something. I will be curious to see how Nintendo and Sony imitate and implement this rumoured Xbox direction. Nintendo could possibly rent the servers out from MS and have there own access but I don't see Sony doing that as there relationship with MS isn't the same. 

Simple just build a system like Azure, SONY is not as rich like Microsoft but they can afford if it for making money.  Or the easiest one, work with Google, Oracle, or Amazon. 



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HollyGamer on 24 July 2018
Pemalite said:
Azzanation said:

PSNow is not a world wide service. From what I believe PSNow runs off Gaikai which is only used in some parts of the world. From memory Gaikai cost Sony roughly $500m. Now if you put that into comparison with Azure, that cost MS $30b which is accessible world wide. Something I don't think Sony can afford unless they rent out Amazon or something. I will be curious to see how Nintendo and Sony imitate and implement this rumoured Xbox direction. Nintendo could possibly rent the servers out from MS and have there own access but I don't see Sony doing that as there relationship with MS isn't the same. 

Sony can also rent out Azure.
If Microsoft succeeds in this endeavor, it will end up being fantastic advertisement for one of their most lucrative and fastest growing businesses.

Or SONY can work with Google, it's not like Microsoft who only have Cloud system around the world 



mjk45 on 25 July 2018
HollyGamer said:
Azzanation said:

PSNow is not a world wide service. From what I believe PSNow runs off Gaikai which is only used in some parts of the world. From memory Gaikai cost Sony roughly $500m. Now if you put that into comparison with Azure, that cost MS $30b which is accessible world wide. Something I don't think Sony can afford unless they rent out Amazon or something. I will be curious to see how Nintendo and Sony imitate and implement this rumoured Xbox direction. Nintendo could possibly rent the servers out from MS and have there own access but I don't see Sony doing that as there relationship with MS isn't the same. 

Simple just build a system like Azure, SONY is not as rich like Microsoft but they can afford if it for making money.  Or the easiest one, work with Google, Oracle, or Amazon. 

It brings up the question of whether or not Sony should  do more to position itself in the tech space , this issue has become more  pertinent than ever. In today's world of Google , MS,Facebook , Amazon etal, old company structures no longer cut the mustard.



Research shows Video games  help make you smarter, so why am I an idiot

HoloDust on 25 July 2018
Pemalite said:
HoloDust said:

If that thing about collision detection done locally is true (which implies game logic running locally), then I guess at least same or similar CPU is required to be in cloud box as well in full offline box.

Shouldn't have any reliance on hardware in that regard, you aren't having identical tasks being done on both machines, only more time-sensitive tasks done locally.
Although... Some Azure servers are running 8-core Haswell CPU's @ 3.2ghz... Which completely and utterly decimates the Jaguar chips... Only CPU AMD has that could compete with that is Ryzen.

I have to admit I really don't have a clue were collision detection comes in game engines, and what other steps CPU has to finish before getting to collision - my assumption (probably erroneous) is it needs to do the whole game logic locally and then send data to cloud for rendering, from which I draw conclusion that it needs same or similar CPU as full Scarlet.



DirtyP2002 on 25 July 2018
thismeintiel said:
Boy, do I see a rocky launch. Two devices with incredibly different prices, but both say XB2, while there's only one PS5, which will probably be priced in between them (I see the streaming device launching for $199 and the console for $499.) My guess is parents will either go with the simple PS5 option, or buy the cheap XB2, thinking that they got a deal. Of course, for the latter, once low/middle class parents realize that they brought in a data monster and are tied to the Xbox Store, instead of being able to pick up cheaper games on Amazon/Walmart, I don't think they'll be too happy with the purchase.

conclusion: MS will finally drop Xbox?



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

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setsunatenshi on 25 July 2018
Pemalite said:
Mar1217 said:

But since the streaming box is probably made with budget sensitive people in mind. You would  think that most of them don't have the bugdet for neither the traditional version or good internet and data cap which is necessary for the streaming box.

Then buy a last gen console or wait for prices to drop.

Ganoncrotch said:
I mean... for this to best the X1X you're going to need native 4k streaming ability.. that's not going to happen on the majority of the worlds internet right now, unless there is something I'm missing this is a machine which is going to be bouncing around the resolutions like a copy of Wolfenstein 2 on the Switch when the action kicks off... except it's not going to be determined by action on screen but by your housemates desires to download something.

1) The Xbox One X doesn't render every game at 4k.
2) Resolution doesn't equate to a games graphics fidelity in it's entirety.
3) A dynamic video resolution will likely be employed, if you have a 15Mbps~ internet connection, then 4k is more than feasible with h.265, only got 2mbps? Then stiff. 720P it is.
4) The streaming box would be an option to buy, you aren't forced to buy that in place of a "traditional" styled fixed-home console.

setsunatenshi said:

@bold: I agree, if they somehow manage to bend the laws of physics that would indeed be impressive :D

They aren't trying to break the laws of physics?
Not everything rendered in a games scene is actually rendered/calculated at the same time... Because an individual isn't going to notice if something like the games weather system is 10 seconds behind the games tick rate rather than 1 second.

drkohler said:
Here's my question:
If that streaming box is not a powerful console, wouldn't a generic XBox1S already be powerful enough? So why would one need to buy this streaming box at all if one owned an XBox1S?

They may have updated the video decode blocks on the SoC (H.266?) so it can more efficiently decode the streams compression algorithm, decoding video can actually be extremely demanding on hardware, especially next-gen video coding.
Another aspect is that it might feature a significantly beefier CPU at the expense of GPU and RAM counts in order to handle some more localized, time-sensitive tasks.

HoloDust said:

If that thing about collision detection done locally is true (which implies game logic running locally), then I guess at least same or similar CPU is required to be in cloud box as well in full offline box.

Shouldn't have any reliance on hardware in that regard, you aren't having identical tasks being done on both machines, only more time-sensitive tasks done locally.
Although... Some Azure servers are running 8-core Haswell CPU's @ 3.2ghz... Which completely and utterly decimates the Jaguar chips... Only CPU AMD has that could compete with that is Ryzen.

@bold: that's all fine in theory, but I heard that same story a few years ago and the game that was supposed to display the "Powah of teh cl0ud" has been in development hell for years now (Crackdown 3).

I don't see the technology existing that could eliminate the inevitable lag by outsourcing processing power to a remote machine in some server farm. Yeah, maybe "drivatars" or cloud movement in the sky, but nothing that would massively impact the gameplay.

We'll see in a year or so.



Azzanation on 25 July 2018
HollyGamer said:

Simple just build a system like Azure, SONY is not as rich like Microsoft but they can afford if it for making money.  Or the easiest one, work with Google, Oracle, or Amazon. 

I dont think Sony can afford investing multi billions in a network that will only really benefit there gaming department. PS alone wont turn that figure around any time soon.

MS use Azure for many reasons and actually there gaming Division has little input for it. MS make there money on Azure via other means, something Sony as a corp isnt involved in. Sony is a tech giant not a software giant, a cloud service similar to Azure/Amazon would cost a fortune and wont benefit Sony that much as a whole and PS i dont think will be enough to make back that amount of investments unless they find multiple means for it.

$30b is a huge chunk out of Sony plus its not something i think they can build soon. Will wait and see on there appoach, maybe they will bite the bullet and invest, maybe they will rent the service out, or maybe they wont go the Streaming route. All just assumptions for now.



HollyGamer on 25 July 2018
Azzanation said:
HollyGamer said:

Simple just build a system like Azure, SONY is not as rich like Microsoft but they can afford if it for making money.  Or the easiest one, work with Google, Oracle, or Amazon. 

I dont think Sony can afford investing multi billions in a network that will only really benefit there gaming department. PS alone wont turn that figure around any time soon.

MS use Azure for many reasons and actually there gaming Division has little input for it. MS make there money on Azure via other means, something Sony as a corp isnt involved in. Sony is a tech giant not a software giant, a cloud service similar to Azure/Amazon would cost a fortune and wont benefit Sony that much as a whole and PS i dont think will be enough to make back that amount of investments unless they find multiple means for it.

$30b is a huge chunk out of Sony plus its not something i think they can build soon. Will wait and see on there appoach, maybe they will bite the bullet and invest, maybe they will rent the service out, or maybe they wont go the Streaming route. All just assumptions for now.

The key is "investment "If it's making money SONY will surely investing weather a gaming or service data and etc. The future model already in the course of software and Internet Service. Even if they are only making the cloud system for gaming only they will make it. And don't forget SONY isn't just making games and consoles, SONY has Music,  Movie , Money Insurance , and  a long with Health care business. Building a cloud system has been in their goal and their mind set business and will surely inline with their goal. PlayStation is not just a consoles, they are making a brand , a brand that sells big. 

Although Azzure are big and SONY might not able to create the same thing, It doesn't mean SONY cannot compete directly. SONY is still big in electronic Industries and their assets is getting bigger and closer to Microsoft. I am sure they have a though on that already. The question is how and when will they announce it. But i am pretty sure we will get to the point that cloud service , streaming and data sharing become mainstream. 



HollyGamer on 25 July 2018
mjk45 said:
HollyGamer said:

Simple just build a system like Azure, SONY is not as rich like Microsoft but they can afford if it for making money.  Or the easiest one, work with Google, Oracle, or Amazon. 

It brings up the question of whether or not Sony should  do more to position itself in the tech space , this issue has become more  pertinent than ever. In today's world of Google , MS,Facebook , Amazon etal, old company structures no longer cut the mustard.

In software and Internet service front SONY is behind , but they will eventually catching up. The problem is they are recovering from the money crisis they had from the PS3 era. Also they are now transitioning their business model to a service. I believe by how they choose the new PlayStation CEO , they will invest big in cloud and gaming as a service. At the moment they just building PS brand as big as they can until the infrastructure (Cloud system, and Internet Speed )  ready and fast enough and they will go purely on service. 



setsunatenshi on 25 July 2018
HollyGamer said:
mjk45 said:

It brings up the question of whether or not Sony should  do more to position itself in the tech space , this issue has become more  pertinent than ever. In today's world of Google , MS,Facebook , Amazon etal, old company structures no longer cut the mustard.

In software and Internet service front SONY is behind , but they will eventually catching up. The problem is they are recovering from the money crisis they had from the PS3 era. Also they are now transitioning their business model to a service. I believe by how they choose the new PlayStation CEO , they will invest big in cloud and gaming as a service. At the moment they just building PS brand as big as they can until the infrastructure (Cloud system, and Internet Speed )  ready and fast enough and they will go purely on service. 

There's no "catching up" and there's really no need to. Microsoft has a constant stream of revenue from their business software / cloud services and nearly no competition. This has absolutely nothing to do with the Xbox division which is the one in direct competition with SIE.

Until someone else comes up as a competitor to Windows and MS Office, they are just in a different league. 

 

Sony Corp mkt cap - $60B

Microsoft mkt cap - $750B