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Forums - Politics - Brexiters OUTRAGED after discovering that voting to abolish free movement means movement will no longer be free

VGPolyglot said:
black8jac said:

There is nothing wrong with nationalism. Only mixed with xenophobia become ugly.

The core of nationalism itself revolves around an us vs. them mentality of people within a certain nation against those outside of that nation.

Having an identity isn't the same thing as racism and xenophobia. Are you racist and xenophobic if you don't allow a homeless man to live in your basement? What if they're a minority race?



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VGPolyglot said:
black8jac said:

I have to disagree. European Union should be Union of Nations not a one country without a face. If we take Nations out of equation we will lose our identity.

I will say it again. The word you looking for is xenophobia. 

How would you lose your identity? Unless you base your entire identity on your nationality.

Cultural heritage is a huge part of your identity. For a german individual who has had german ancestry going back 500 years that is a big part of their identity. Americans/Canadians have a hard time understanding this, because their identity is new and largely married to multi culturalism. 



contestgamer said:
Helloplite said:

If the standard of measure and comparison is Nazism and the KKK, then that is a very very low standard to compare things to. Incidentally, Nazism in its purest state is not "racist" in the grand scheme of things. Karl Schmitt, the philosopher of Nazism, only argued about the necessity of the friend-enemy relation, the "us" against which a "them" is defined. Schmitt was arguing about the necessity of forcing the nation to be one, in response to previous philosophers such as Plato and Aristotle and the grander debates about democracy. He presented his theory as a form of refined democracy where the people are "made" to speak as one (hint: through the dictator figure of the Chancellor). In his theory, and influenced by Platos distaste of democracy, he argued that the origin of justice is an act of violence. Democracy cannot contain multiple voices because this is its undoing.

 

Hence the Volk, the people who speak as one... By not having to speak at all.

On a similar note, let us not forget the cultural openings of Hitler to muslims, which he thought could be friends and allies to the Reich. "The peoples of Islam will always be closer to us than, for example, France", he said, which is probably the closest thing to a racist and a nationalist calling someone of another identity as a "friend".

But I am digressing here. Ultimately, nationalism nurtures racism, like the sun's light nurtures the shadows cast by it. Nationalism distinguishes people between an us and a them. It is at its core. Racism is the natural outcome.

oh ok, so Nazi's and Hitler aren't racist, only vgchart posters you don't agree with are. Gotcha. Sounds pretty racist to me. 

In fact lets use your logic here:

"On a similar note, let us not forget the cultural openings of Hitler to muslims, which he thought could be friends and allies to the Reich. "The peoples of Islam will always be closer to us than, for example, France", he said, which is probably the closest thing to a racist and a nationalist calling someone of another identity as a "friend"."

A Hitler apologist.... Like every racist ever.

A Hitler apologist? That's amusing. I am not calling those who disagree with me racist. I am calling racist those who are. I even said that comparing VGChartz posters to Nazism is a very low standard indeed, as no one deserves such denigrating comparison.

 

Reading comprehension. Master it for your own good.

 

And to clarify, not for you as you are a lost cause, but to others: Hitler's openings to Muslims, and Carl Schmitt's student being a Jew is the very equivalent of someone saying "I cannot be a racist, my gf/friends are mixed race". 

 

Denial is the first step to ignorance.

Last edited by Helloplite - on 01 May 2018

contestgamer said:
VGPolyglot said:

The core of nationalism itself revolves around an us vs. them mentality of people within a certain nation against those outside of that nation.

Having an identity isn't the same thing as racism and xenophobia. Are you racist and xenophobic if you don't allow a homeless man to live in your basement? What if they're a minority race?

That's the problem right there, you're equating nations with individuals, as if a nation is a living being even though it's an artificial creation. In any case I can't let a homeless man to live in my basement because I don't own my own house.



contestgamer said:
VGPolyglot said:

How would you lose your identity? Unless you base your entire identity on your nationality.

Cultural heritage is a huge part of your identity. For a german individual who has had german ancestry going back 500 years that is a big part of their identity. Americans/Canadians have a hard time understanding this, because their identity is new and largely married to multi culturalism. 

Germany wasn't even unified in 1871, not 500 years ago.



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Helloplite said:
contestgamer said:

oh ok, so Nazi's and Hitler aren't racist, only vgchart posters you don't agree with are. Gotcha. Sounds pretty racist to me. 

In fact lets use your logic here:

"On a similar note, let us not forget the cultural openings of Hitler to muslims, which he thought could be friends and allies to the Reich. "The peoples of Islam will always be closer to us than, for example, France", he said, which is probably the closest thing to a racist and a nationalist calling someone of another identity as a "friend"."

A Hitler apologist.... Like every racist ever.

A Hitler apologist? That's amusing. I am not calling those who disagree with me racist. I am calling racist those who are. I even said that comparing VGChartz posters to Nazism is a very low standard indeed, as no one deserves such denigrating comparison.

 

Reading comprehension. Master it for your own good.

Someone says they have multi racial friends/relationships. You say they're racist. Amazing reading comprehension there. A+



VGPolyglot said:
contestgamer said:

Cultural heritage is a huge part of your identity. For a german individual who has had german ancestry going back 500 years that is a big part of their identity. Americans/Canadians have a hard time understanding this, because their identity is new and largely married to multi culturalism. 

Germany wasn't even unified in 1871, not 500 years ago.

Doesn't matter when it became an official unified nation. They obviously have strong ties to Austria, Hungary etc due to some shared history, but there is still a much longer history of Germany identity that spans far further back than 1871. I would know, I'm half Austrian.



contestgamer said:
VGPolyglot said:

Germany wasn't even unified in 1871, not 500 years ago.

Doesn't matter when it became an official unified nation. They obviously have strong ties to Austria, Hungary etc due to some shared history, but there is still a much longer history of Germany identity that spans far further back than 1871. I would know, I'm half Austrian.

Yeah it does matter, it shows that nationalism is a much more modern concept than you're making it out to be.



contestgamer said:
Helloplite said:

A Hitler apologist? That's amusing. I am not calling those who disagree with me racist. I am calling racist those who are. I even said that comparing VGChartz posters to Nazism is a very low standard indeed, as no one deserves such denigrating comparison.

 

Reading comprehension. Master it for your own good.

Someone says they have multi racial friends/relationships. You say they're racist. Amazing reading comprehension there. A+

And, to reiterate a point I made in a further clarifying edit:

 

Hitler's openings to Muslims, and Carl Schmitt's student being a Jew is the very equivalent of someone saying "I cannot be a racist, my gf/friends are mixed race". 

 

Denial is the first step to ignorance.

 

As I said. Reading comprehension. Master it, son.



VGPolyglot said:
black8jac said:

I have to disagree. European Union should be Union of Nations not a one country without a face. If we take Nations out of equation we will lose our identity.

I will say it again. The word you looking for is xenophobia. 

How would you lose your identity? Unless you base your entire identity on your nationality.

It's big part of our identity. As being born in European country I share most of the values of Christianity. That is despite being an atheist. If we try to diminish that values we expose ourselves to indoctrination of values of others maybe not as liberal as our cultures. We shouldn't, in my opinion, dilute our identity we should cherish and embrace it. 

I give you an example. In Europe, at the moment, there is a trend to invite and harbour people from Middle East. As much as noble it is, a big part of these people have no intention to integrate and at least respect our values. It is quite opposite, the core of their values is to indoctrinate others to their liking.