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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS5's rumored specs are... ridiculous

Dark_Feanor said:

The PS5 might exists and might be launch this Hollyday season. However, there is zero chance of it´s supporting a Navi GPU and may be close to zero to use Zen CPU cores.

First, there has never been a console with a Radeon GPU architecture that was the top tear of the year. And we even have to suppose those Navi cards are coming this year.

You are conflating two separate issues.
Navi is an architecture not a specific GPU.

Dark_Feanor said:
And Zen cores are far bigger than Jaguar, supposing Navi CU are also bigger than Polaris and we simply don´t have enough "size budget" to create the SoC.

Evidence?

Dark_Feanor said:
Third, even if the PS5 GPU is bigger, how the hell will it leverage bandwidth speed? GDDR5X?  That would be a minuscule increase for an extra price. And the PS5 will need to have at least 12GB to reach full 4K most of the time. That is more $$$ over more $$$.

GDDR6 is in mass production.

Dark_Feanor said:
There is no reason Sony would bet on new architecture at this point of the generation.

They are going to have to eventually.

PwerlvlAmy said:
super fake news

Indeed. Although I wouldn't be surprised if dev kits were floating about, it's far to early for a Playstation 5 or Xbox Two.

Dark_Feanor said:

PS: Even though Jaguar has been a punching bag this generation, no one can deny it is a very proven and reliable  mobile CPU.

AMD has better, smaller, more efficient mobile CPU's though. In-fact, they even made a successor to Jaguar.

Dark_Feanor said:

 If a big APU is expensive, it is still far cheaper than discreet components. The simple fact that you have to wire and encapsulate two different types of chips would add extra costs, without considering how to place them on the motherboard and m race memory banks.

Your assertion is accurate up to a point.

Otherwise AMD would have made threadripper as one giant chip... But rather, that wasn't economic.
It was far more economical to use 8-core complexes stitched together as AMD could get more working chips per wafer that way.

Dark_Feanor said:


Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo will aways use proven technologies and architectures.

Cell, Wii and Xenos say otherwise.

KBG29 said:
I

 am hoping the baseline PS5 is closer to 20TF. PS5 should be a generational leap over PS4, not just a PS4 revision. 

Flops isn't everything. Nor would it be achievable in the real world anyway.


Barkley said:

You're never going to get a gpu that powerful in the ps5, the best pc GPUs currently available are under 10tf. If it launches this year you'd be lucky to get 8tf. Even in 2020 itll probably be 10-12tf.

You can't expect the same proportional increase of 8-9x the flops, just as you can't with Ram. Ps5 isn't going to have 128gb of ram even if that would be consistent with previous generational leaps.

Flops is a theoretical ceiling, often not achievable in the real world.
You can get that 8-9x increase in performance without an 8-9x increase in flops.

As for Ram, GDDR6 basically offers twice the performance/bandwidth over GDDR5. So 16GB of Ram should be the minimum I would expect.

JRPGfan said:

1,6ghz Jaguar -> 3ghz Zen core = ~4x speed up? in terms of cpu.
1.84 Tflops (sea islands) -> ~12 Tflops (Navi) = x6-7 speed up? in terms of gpu.

No.

JRPGfan said:

Semiaccurate have a pretty reliable track-record.
They do have insider connections and know what goes on in fabs where things are made.

All they have said is that they have varified that its a zen cpu (8c), and a navi based gpu.... w/ some stuff for VR buildt in.
They "speculate" due to the amount of dev kits out in the wild, that a PS5 wont be far out from now, ei. 2019.

^ most of that, is something people would assume to be happending anyway so yeah 1,000$ for that is insane.
However its nice to "know" instead of be "guessing".

Having a zen based CPU is a certainty at this point.

Semi-Accurate don't always get everything right.

And nor should you take any outlet at face value because of a "track record". - You need to look at the evidence before forming an opinion.



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setsunatenshi said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

IF they want. It's definitely possible that if they haven't already arrived too far in the development process, they could be willing to offer a hybrid version too for their next console. It would make sense, as it woul be the only possible way to get some portable market share too, but it would require mobile APUs to be powerful enough by then. No rumours at all about this, just plain abstract reasoning.

in other words, fantasy

there's zero indication Sony wants to even be in that market and as I tried to debunk plenty of times during the Switch (NX) fantasy stage, there's no way to actually create a portable device (akin to the switch) with anywhere near the power to even touch the ps4, much less the future ps5.

also good luck with an x86 architecture with low enough tdp to even make the handheld form factor a physical reality

Surely impossible now, very unlikely next year, but how about 2020? Don't forget that only the CPU should provide almost the same computing power also in undocked mode, while the GPU would run at a power considerably lower than in docked mode.  They could even include mobile and PC GPU cores and switch between them, the APU would cost more, but the hybrid model would be obviously priced higher than the base home-only one.
About Sony's will, who knows? Why shouldn't it want to take some portable market share back if it were possible? Obviously this would be viable if the market offered the needed power anyway, investing what's needed to make such devices just for PS5 would be a suicide. Thus it's just matter of launch date, for what regards feasibility. So yes, right now it's abstract reasoning, fantasy if you're just so eager to quickly dismiss it, but if feasibility arrives in time for next gen, why not? BTW it also depends on what Sony will be able to know about MS plans: if they include a hybrid, then it would be very likely that Sony wouldn't want to be the only one left without one. But neither Sony nor MS will let the competitors know it too early, so about this issue it will be a gamble for both, and this, again, makes not just feasibility, but also viability the decisive factors.



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There's absolutely ZERO possibility it'll come out this year and the next. The PS4 is selling so well, releasing it before Q4 2020 would make absolutely no sense.

As for specs and hardware - that's anyone's guess. But don't expect anything crazy, Sony will want the launch price to be around $400/$450.



Alby_da_Wolf said:
setsunatenshi said:

in other words, fantasy

there's zero indication Sony wants to even be in that market and as I tried to debunk plenty of times during the Switch (NX) fantasy stage, there's no way to actually create a portable device (akin to the switch) with anywhere near the power to even touch the ps4, much less the future ps5.

also good luck with an x86 architecture with low enough tdp to even make the handheld form factor a physical reality

Surely impossible now, very unlikely next year, but how about 2020? Don't forget that only the CPU should provide almost the same computing power also in undocked mode, while the GPU would run at a power considerably lower than in docked mode.  They could even include mobile and PC GPU cores and switch between them, the APU would cost more, but the hybrid model would be obviously priced higher than the base home-only one.
About Sony's will, who knows? Why shouldn't it want to take some portable market share back if it were possible? Obviously this would be viable if the market offered the needed power anyway, investing what's needed to make such devices just for PS5 would be a suicide. Thus it's just matter of launch date, for what regards feasibility. So yes, right now it's abstract reasoning, fantasy if you're just so eager to quickly dismiss it, but if feasibility arrives in time for next gen, why not? BTW it also depends on what Sony will be able to know about MS plans: if they include a hybrid, then it would be very likely that Sony wouldn't want to be the only one left without one. But neither Sony nor MS will let the competitors know it too early, so about this issue it will be a gamble for both, and this, again, makes not just feasibility, but also viability the decisive factors.

2020? still impossible... 

Why? well because the PS5 will be as powerful and as small as it can be and guess what, it will still be inside a box more or less the size of a PS4.

It will be absolutely as small and as power efficient as they can make it and still won't be enough to be a "portable" or "hybrid"

Sony is not chasing after Nintendo. Their customers expect top performance (for the price and console space) and any change to this philosophy would basically give out their market share to PC and whatever Microsoft will come up with next.

Sure the Switch niche is a nice one and I'm all for having a powerful handheld (still love and play my Vita till this day), but there is literally no chance Sony will handicap themselves chasing a fantasy and giving the ground to Microsoft in order to (maybe) make a more powerful switch. That would be Sony shooting themselves in the head.

To sum up, yes I'm quite convinced the leaks so far are probably real, yes we'll have a Ryzen - Navi based APU, we'll probably have GDDR6 and i'm quite convinced it will happen in the holiday of 2019. All depending on AMD having no more delays on their Navi architecture.

This does not mean that a few years later, and depending on Nintendo's continued success with the Switch, they couldn't release some sort of handheld that could basically play the same ps4/5 games on lower settings. This will not be the main PS5 SKU. I'll bet my left nut on it.



setsunatenshi said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

Surely impossible now, very unlikely next year, but how about 2020? Don't forget that only the CPU should provide almost the same computing power also in undocked mode, while the GPU would run at a power considerably lower than in docked mode.  They could even include mobile and PC GPU cores and switch between them, the APU would cost more, but the hybrid model would be obviously priced higher than the base home-only one.
About Sony's will, who knows? Why shouldn't it want to take some portable market share back if it were possible? Obviously this would be viable if the market offered the needed power anyway, investing what's needed to make such devices just for PS5 would be a suicide. Thus it's just matter of launch date, for what regards feasibility. So yes, right now it's abstract reasoning, fantasy if you're just so eager to quickly dismiss it, but if feasibility arrives in time for next gen, why not? BTW it also depends on what Sony will be able to know about MS plans: if they include a hybrid, then it would be very likely that Sony wouldn't want to be the only one left without one. But neither Sony nor MS will let the competitors know it too early, so about this issue it will be a gamble for both, and this, again, makes not just feasibility, but also viability the decisive factors.

2020? still impossible... 

Why? well because the PS5 will be as powerful and as small as it can be and guess what, it will still be inside a box more or less the size of a PS4.

It will be absolutely as small and as power efficient as they can make it and still won't be enough to be a "portable" or "hybrid"

Sony is not chasing after Nintendo. Their customers expect top performance (for the price and console space) and any change to this philosophy would basically give out their market share to PC and whatever Microsoft will come up with next.

Sure the Switch niche is a nice one and I'm all for having a powerful handheld (still love and play my Vita till this day), but there is literally no chance Sony will handicap themselves chasing a fantasy and giving the ground to Microsoft in order to (maybe) make a more powerful switch. That would be Sony shooting themselves in the head.

To sum up, yes I'm quite convinced the leaks so far are probably real, yes we'll have a Ryzen - Navi based APU, we'll probably have GDDR6 and i'm quite convinced it will happen in the holiday of 2019. All depending on AMD having no more delays on their Navi architecture.

This does not mean that a few years later, and depending on Nintendo's continued success with the Switch, they couldn't release some sort of handheld that could basically play the same ps4/5 games on lower settings. This will not be the main PS5 SKU. I'll bet my left nut on it.

Nowhere I wrote that I think there wouldn't be full powered home versions, I definitely think that even taking ALSO the hybrid way, Sony would always offer powerful home-only versions too. As you wrote, and I forgot to mention, a huge factor would be the amount of success NS will enjoy in the longer term, right now it's just too early to say. But you also forget that current gen most powerful consoles, PS4 and XBOne, both use quite lightweight Jaguar CPU cores, so it will be quite easy for 2020 lightweight cores, based on Zen 2 or even Zen 3 architecture, to outperform them by a generation leap-worthy amount.
GPU is not a problem, as lightweight ones would be used only on hybrid units and maybe, with a more Sony-esque approach, even on them only when undocked, while home-consoles and docked hybrids could use beefier GPU cores, not to mention Premium versions that could use even stronger graphics units.
But all this requires time, surely it won't be viable next year even if it became feasible.
This is just a theory of mine, anyway, and it would make sense only in case the market will show that offering a hybrid version will become if not totally necessary, at least beneficial enough.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough before, but I agree with you that even with this strategy Sony should still offer full powered home-consoles too, its typical user base asks for them.



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PlayStation would lose ALOT of their fanbase if they tried to mimic the Switch. And why should they? It's barely been out a year, it's far from being a proven handheld console.



TranceformerFX said:
PlayStation would lose ALOT of their fanbase if they tried to mimic the Switch. And why should they? It's barely been out a year, it's far from being a proven handheld console.

In fact they shouldn't mimic it. Doing so would imply to launch ONLY a hybrid console, that would be totally against the PS phylosophy and it would do more harm than good, while what I suggest is to offer ALSO a hybrid version, and, as you correctly point out, if and only if the market will show that hybrids aren't a fad, hence the convenience, if current RAM prices and other factors weren't enough, to launch not earlier than in 2020. BTW, even launching in 2020, the hybrid version could be launched later, if the necessary chips aren't available or they're not cheap enough yet by the main launch date, the important thing is to decide and plan things when the time comes and then provide devs with the right dev kits, that's the most important thing, as adding portable features later would make costs grow for them. Anyhow, as I wrote in other posts, a hybrid choice NOW or in in 2019, even as just one of the units onoffered, is impossible for Sony,  current chips couldn't offer the generation performance leap Sony users expect,and high RAM prices would make very expensive to provide the right memory size to fully use the computing power available.
A later launch doesn't mean Sony would stand still in the meantime, as it could do another mid-late-gen step making the Pro the new PS4 base model and offering a new even more powerful Premium unit, and the new avaiolable computing power could be used not just for better graphics, but also to offer a more solid and enjoyable VR experience, so that when next gen comes, some more work would have been already done to make it more attractive for users, not to mention more testing done, more SW available and HW costs further driven down by a higher number of units already produced and sold to a higher number of early adopters.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!