Forums - Politics Discussion - North Korea begins negotiations with US on abandoning its nuclear weapons

They are going to meet!



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EspadaGrim said:
vivster said:

Disastrous foreign policy? You mean the time where the whole world did not hate the US President?

I must have missed Obama escalating dormant conflicts, starting trade wars and ridiculing and disrespecting foreign leaders.

Lets see giving 1 billion dollars to Iran, Expanding the Drone program that kills innocents, Libya nuff said, Giving weapons to Syrian terrorists and getting involved in a Proxy War, NK greatly expanded their Nuclear Program under his time in office, Pulling out of Iraq and letting ISIS fill the power vacuum creating a massive Migration and Refugee crisis. Sure sounds like a Worthy Nobel Peace Prize winner to me. I honestly don't care if he was popular as a person internationally

So what you are saying is that Obama was as bad as Trump at warmongering while being far more liked in the rest of the world? Because the 1 billion dollars belonged to Iran and as far as I know, Trump hasn´t done anything about them. He didn´t pull out of Syria, drone strikes has escalated under Trump and is was Obama, not Trump who put sanctions in place against NK. I agree that ISIS has been a catastrophy but it is not because of the US; had the US gotten involved even more, ISIS would have become even bigger. But thanks to surrounding countries n the middle-east, ISIS has been mostly beaten.



Puppyroach said:
EspadaGrim said:

Lets see giving 1 billion dollars to Iran, Expanding the Drone program that kills innocents, Libya nuff said, Giving weapons to Syrian terrorists and getting involved in a Proxy War, NK greatly expanded their Nuclear Program under his time in office, Pulling out of Iraq and letting ISIS fill the power vacuum creating a massive Migration and Refugee crisis. Sure sounds like a Worthy Nobel Peace Prize winner to me. I honestly don't care if he was popular as a person internationally

So what you are saying is that Obama was as bad as Trump at warmongering ...

Which wars did Trump begin? He ended the Obama/Clinton 'regime change' in Syria in few months, a civil war that lasted for six years (mostly by ending the funding of 'moderate terrorists' through the CIA).

Behind the Sudden Death of a $1 Billion Secret C.I.A. War in Syria

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/world/middleeast/cia-syria-rebel-arm-train-trump.html

 



Puppyroach said:
EspadaGrim said:

Lets see giving 1 billion dollars to Iran, Expanding the Drone program that kills innocents, Libya nuff said, Giving weapons to Syrian terrorists and getting involved in a Proxy War, NK greatly expanded their Nuclear Program under his time in office, Pulling out of Iraq and letting ISIS fill the power vacuum creating a massive Migration and Refugee crisis. Sure sounds like a Worthy Nobel Peace Prize winner to me. I honestly don't care if he was popular as a person internationally

So what you are saying is that Obama was as bad as Trump at warmongering while being far more liked in the rest of the world? Because the 1 billion dollars belonged to Iran and as far as I know, Trump hasn´t done anything about them. He didn´t pull out of Syria, drone strikes has escalated under Trump and is was Obama, not Trump who put sanctions in place against NK. I agree that ISIS has been a catastrophy but it is not because of the US; had the US gotten involved even more, ISIS would have become even bigger. But thanks to surrounding countries n the middle-east, ISIS has been mostly beaten.

Trump Warmongering? lmao what wars has he started tell me? The 1 billion dollars that Obama gave to Iran was used to fund Terrorists that money didn't belong to them it was part of the Iran Nuclear Deal.  Obama also funded terrorists in Syria. Also Trump put harder sanctions on NK and even had cooperation from China to put harder sanctions on them, and guess what it has worked. He also traded terrorists for an American traitor.

Last edited by EspadaGrim - on 11 March 2018

EspadaGrim said:
Puppyroach said:

So what you are saying is that Obama was as bad as Trump at warmongering while being far more liked in the rest of the world? Because the 1 billion dollars belonged to Iran and as far as I know, Trump hasn´t done anything about them. He didn´t pull out of Syria, drone strikes has escalated under Trump and is was Obama, not Trump who put sanctions in place against NK. I agree that ISIS has been a catastrophy but it is not because of the US; had the US gotten involved even more, ISIS would have become even bigger. But thanks to surrounding countries n the middle-east, ISIS has been mostly beaten.

Trump Warmongering? lmao what wars has he started tell me? The 1 billion dollars that Obama gave to Iran was used to fund Terrorists that money didn't belong to them it was part of the Iran Nuclear Deal.  Obama also funded terrorists in Syria. Also Trump put harder sanctions on NK and even had cooperation from China to put harder sanctions on them, and guess what it has worked. He also traded terrorists for an American traitor.

My english might be bad, but warmongering isn´t the same as starting wars, right? And the drone strikes doubled under Trumps first year compared to Obama, so they are both pretty bad.

And regarding the debt to Iran, The Washington Post gives a very thourough resume of events and the decisions that have been made: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/03/01/was-obamas-1-7-billion-cash-deal-with-iran-prohibited-by-u-s-law/?utm_term=.d919f6d155ba

And what difference does it make where the money goes (and please provide proof that they have funded terrorism)? The money still belonged to Iran and the US got a lot in return for the cash.

You have no idea if the sanctions against NK worked, you could look back to -94 for proof that NK rarely keep their word, but we can hope that they have and I would be very happy if they were succesful. But they wouldn´t be possible without the sanctions that Obama and congress put in place in 2016: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35828831



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Puppyroach said:
EspadaGrim said:

Trump Warmongering? lmao what wars has he started tell me? The 1 billion dollars that Obama gave to Iran was used to fund Terrorists that money didn't belong to them it was part of the Iran Nuclear Deal.  Obama also funded terrorists in Syria. Also Trump put harder sanctions on NK and even had cooperation from China to put harder sanctions on them, and guess what it has worked. He also traded terrorists for an American traitor.

My english might be bad, but warmongering isn´t the same as starting wars, right? And the drone strikes doubled under Trumps first year compared to Obama, so they are both pretty bad.

And regarding the debt to Iran, The Washington Post gives a very thourough resume of events and the decisions that have been made: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/03/01/was-obamas-1-7-billion-cash-deal-with-iran-prohibited-by-u-s-law/?utm_term=.d919f6d155ba

And what difference does it make where the money goes (and please provide proof that they have funded terrorism)? The money still belonged to Iran and the US got a lot in return for the cash.

You have no idea if the sanctions against NK worked, you could look back to -94 for proof that NK rarely keep their word, but we can hope that they have and I would be very happy if they were succesful. But they wouldn´t be possible without the sanctions that Obama and congress put in place in 2016: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35828831

South Korea just said that the reason that NK is coming to the Table and willing to talk about Denuclearization is because the Tougher Sanctions that The Trump administration put on them, NK always had Sanctions on them Trump was even tougher and like I said convinced China to get more involved. Not to mention that Obama administration refused to put North Korea on the list of State sponsors of Terrorism despite them knowing that NK was ramping up their Nuclear Program under his time.

Warmongering is making decisions that lead to Wars or Military actions, Just because he makes mean tweets doesn't mean he is a Warmongerer. He has started no new conflicts yet. Do you believe removing Assad in Syria would lead to good things? He is Backed by Russia and Iran, if we were to continue Obama's and Hillary's Proxy War then that would have led us closer to WW3. Even his own supporter base got mad at him when he bombed that Syrian Air field.

Iran is #1 in the state sponsor of terrorism in the US their Regime is known to funnel money to terrorists groups in the Middle East, giving them all that money was not a good deal even if was owed to them.  https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/02/politics/state-department-report-terrorism/index.html

Quote from the article "On Iran, the report said that country remained the foremost state sponsor of terrorism in 2015, providing a range of support, including financial, training, and equipment, to groups around the world."



Thanks Dennis Rodman. He should get the nobel peace prize



This is my assessment on all of this. Kim Jong Un is not an idiot. Unlike his father and to a lesser extent his grandfather, he's been to other countries. He was educated in Switzerland. He has seen things that most North Koreans haven't seen. He knows how backwards North Korea really is. Because of this, he also knows that he could never win a war against South Korea and the United States and that there will never be a unified Korea under North Korean rule. The only thing he can do is to have North Korea in a better economic situation for the eventually reunification with the South. Maybe it'll give the North more room for negotiations for letting would-be criminals off the hook, or to give higher-ups in the military and government a nice cozy place under a unified government. Also, a more economically viable North Korea would make unification more likely since it would be less likely that we would see millions of ex-commies, or whatever the hell they call themselves now running to South Korea asking for a handout. In order for that to happen, he will need to turn North Korea into. a mini China, much like what Vietnam is doing. In order for that to happen, the sanctions need to be lifted. So he decided to escalate this whole nuke threat in order to get the US to the negotiating table which could lead to the sanctions being lifted.

There's no doubt this is what Trump wants. After all, he'll most likely get a 2020 re-election with a peace negotiation with North Korea rather than a war, especially since most Americans by this point are sick of war. The big question is will the military-industrial complex and the Deep State allow Trump to do this? A lot of people have been making money for a long time off of the possibility of war in Asia. If that possibility were to disappear, a lot of people would be losing out on a lot of money. Perhaps they'll try once again to prop up Putin as the James Bond super villain? Perhaps they'll accuse another Middle Eastern country that isn't Saudi Arabia of harboring terrorists? Or they'll find a way to undermine any attempt at Peace in Korea. Who knows.



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RolStoppable said:
poklane said:

“It made it clear that it would have no reason to keep nuclear weapons if the military threat to the North was eliminated and its security guaranteed.”

So they're just gonna demand that the US completely pulls out of South Korea and Japan and ceases all military drills.
 

Sounds reasonable.

Japan doesnt have an actual military



Muda Muda Muda Muda Muda Muda!!!!


Arminillo said:
RolStoppable said:

Sounds reasonable.

Japan doesnt have an actual military

Constitutionally they don't, but in reality they do. The annual military budget is more than $46 billion and they currently have the 8th largest military budget in the world. They even outspend South Korea, the country who is in far more danger. 



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