Forums - General Discussion - Which Is A Bigger Threat To Humanity? Science Or Religion?

o_O.Q said:
Peh said:

Sure, but atheism doesn't tell anyone to do anything, arf. Their motivation comes from different sources, arf.

well i'm just making the point that atheists aren't bastions of moral virtue

No one made the claim that they are, arf. You attacked your own strawman, arf. How about attacking what bdbdbd said, arf.



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Peh said:
o_O.Q said:

well i'm just making the point that atheists aren't bastions of moral virtue

No one made the claim that they are, arf. You attacked your own strawman, arf. How about attacking what bdbdbd said, arf.

i didn't say anyone said so... so i'm not attacking a strawman... i'm just saying that atheists aren't bastions of moral virtue in response to the point that was made about religions influencing people to cause harm

and some religious people would make the point that without the grace of god atheists fall into temptation from the devil

atheists can't disprove that claim



o_O.Q said: 

broken in this sense means that we're going beyond the bonds of what we currently know and that singularities do not fit into what we know in a practical sense

I think we might be in disagreement on the definition of a singularity.  What do you consider a singularity, especially in the context of the Big Bang cosmology?  Does the singularity physically exist?  Does it mathematically exist?  Is there evidence to support or debunk it or are researchers trying to find evidence?

 

The singularity is just a mathematical signal that our model does not apply in this realm.  Researchers are not looking for physical evidence that supports an infinitely dense universe... instead, they're building a new theory that doesn't include the singularity.  

Last edited by pleaserecycle - on 15 January 2018

pleaserecycle said:
o_O.Q said: 

broken in this sense means that we're going beyond the bonds of what we currently know and that singularities do not fit into what we know in a practical sense

I think we might be in disagreement on the definition of a singularity.  What do you consider a singularity, especially in the context of the Big Bang cosmology?  Does the singularity physically exist?  Does it mathematically exist?  Is there evidence to support or debunk it or are researchers trying to find evidence?

 

The singularity is just a mathematical signal that our model does not apply in this realm.  Researchers are not looking for physical evidence that supports an infinitely dense universe... instead, they're building a new theory that doesn't include the singularity.  

 

i think the theory is that blacks holes individually contain a singularity at their center, that the gravitational effects of black holes are actually a result of the singularity

i think that's how they're trying to tie singularities to our realm 

 

 



o_O.Q said:
pleaserecycle said:

I think we might be in disagreement on the definition of a singularity.  What do you consider a singularity, especially in the context of the Big Bang cosmology?  Does the singularity physically exist?  Does it mathematically exist?  Is there evidence to support or debunk it or are researchers trying to find evidence?

 

The singularity is just a mathematical signal that our model does not apply in this realm.  Researchers are not looking for physical evidence that supports an infinitely dense universe... instead, they're building a new theory that doesn't include the singularity.  

 

i think the theory is that blacks holes individually contain a singularity at their center, that the gravitational effects of black holes are actually a result of the singularity

i think that's how they're trying to tie singularities to our realm 

 

 

You seem absolutely certain that the scientific community has "faith" in singularities but when asked specifics there's a whole lot of "I think". Don't you think you should study what leading scientists in the field say before you make the claim that your remembrance that black holes and the big bang involve singularities is a sign that scientists are using faith?



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o_O.Q said:
pleaserecycle said:

I think we might be in disagreement on the definition of a singularity.  What do you consider a singularity, especially in the context of the Big Bang cosmology?  Does the singularity physically exist?  Does it mathematically exist?  Is there evidence to support or debunk it or are researchers trying to find evidence?

 

The singularity is just a mathematical signal that our model does not apply in this realm.  Researchers are not looking for physical evidence that supports an infinitely dense universe... instead, they're building a new theory that doesn't include the singularity.  

 

i think the theory is that blacks holes individually contain a singularity at their center, that the gravitational effects of black holes are actually a result of the singularity

i think that's how they're trying to tie singularities to our realm 

 

 

The singularities do not physically exist.  They're only mathematical. 



o_O.Q said:
bdbdbd said:

You're right. It is religion that makes people to do that.

"You're right. It is religion that makes people to do that."

but atheists kill people too right?

Maybe. I don't know. So far I've never heard anyone killing other people because atheism told them to. Religion, on the other hand, is a whole different matter.



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o_O.Q said:
Peh said:

No one made the claim that they are, arf. You attacked your own strawman, arf. How about attacking what bdbdbd said, arf.

i didn't say anyone said so... so i'm not attacking a strawman... i'm just saying that atheists aren't bastions of moral virtue in response to the point that was made about religions influencing people to cause harm

and some religious people would make the point that without the grace of god atheists fall into temptation from the devil

atheists can't disprove that claim

It is not for the atheists to prove that. Burden of proof falls on those "some religious people".



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superchunk said:
Superman4 said:

I disagree completely with this statement. Anywhere you have religion you have issues. Why is the middle east in an endless war? Religion. Why does the US have insane laws regarding abortion, gay marriage etc.  Religion. Lack of religion allows you to focus on being a person first and not waiting for some mythical figure to guide you through life. It also eliminates the justification for your violence towards others or acceptance of others. Over time religion has caused more deaths and massacres than any war over land,or Plague.

Name one country where there is no religion? That's like saying air is the leading cause of death because nearly everyone who has ever died was breathing air at the time of death.

You are highlighting true issues with how people use their religious power. However, you are ignoring the countless others who are happy in that same extreme living space or in the much larger world where extremism is not law. Its called cherry picking.

The OP was not requesting opinions on cherry picked scenarios. When you break down plausibility for humanity impacting crisis', an event rising from AI, genetic manipulations, or otherwise have a far higher possibility than tyrannical religion. Fact is, we already have and have had extremist religions powers. Humanity hasn't been threatened.

Hell, what has threatened humanity? WW1 and 2. The Cuban Missile Crisis. Those had nothing to do with religion but power and that power utilized weapons and scientific studies to kill millions. Especially during WW2. 

It's far more likely that we're going to see a plague caused by genetic manipulation.

It's far more likely that we're going to have issues from AI.

It's far more likely that we're going to become to reliant on science / tech and when it collapses from some war action, we'll all be screwed. (read the one second after book, good stuff)

Now, don't get me wrong. I love tech and science. I can't wait to see implementations of self driving cars (I'm buying a Telsa later this year). I will be among the first to sign up for nano-tech injected into my body as a better immune system. I am un-trustworthy of GMO food in general (another topic I see as a big risk to humanity) but I'm not against further study on producing better food genetically. (difference is in injecting poisons vs increasing size/nutrients)

The argument isn't which one is better than the other as both have merits and risks. This isn't an emotional discussion. But which has the most plausibility to be a threat to humanity. Organized belief in a god is actually on the decline WW. This is why there is so much backlash in America as Christians are now becoming more and more extremist. Its a defense mechanism. (btw, I'm not atheist or Christian) But, mistakes in several scientific fields simply have a higher plausibility of happening than a large-scale religious based conflict or a religions based terror group attempting to kill us all off with nukes/virus/etc.

Organised belief in god is on the decline worldwide, but it's been replaced with other belief systems, that people take as religions. 

Even if the number of religous people would be going down in numbers, the extremism is on the rise and spreading worldwide. If the people are happy under the extremist conditions, I'd suggest them staying there where they are happy. But they don't, which leads us to two possible conclusions: 1. They aren't happy there, 2. These extremists are a threat to mankind.

Religions, like any other ideology, tries to force you to accept their sets of beliefs, if you don't, you don't deserve to live or you deserve to live only as slaves for the righterous.

I see your religious mindset gives you faith in science. Science doesn't work that way. It's only about if the benefits of science outweight the harm. Why would the nanomachines benefit your immune system? Is there something wrong with it, that it can't make it by itself? Why would you let a car to drive by itself, how it is better than you driving the car yourself?



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Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

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o_O.Q said:
Peh said:

No one made the claim that they are, arf. You attacked your own strawman, arf. How about attacking what bdbdbd said, arf.

i didn't say anyone said so... so i'm not attacking a strawman... i'm just saying that atheists aren't bastions of moral virtue in response to the point that was made about religions influencing people to cause harm

and some religious people would make the point that without the grace of god atheists fall into temptation from the devil

atheists can't disprove that claim

Your very reply to bdbdbd is a non-sequitur, arf. He talks about the influence of religion itself, arf. You reply has absolutely nothing to do with his, arf. You just dodged his statement and went straight for atheists who also kill people to build a strawman, arf.

 

Uhm, why should I disprove a claim which you for example created, arf? Don't shift the burden of proof on to atheists, arf.

Besides not believing in a God or the devil, I don't see myself going around killing and raping people, arf. Nor do I see millions of other atheistic people do that, arf. For once, I've yet to see the numerous news on the media saying: atheististic group rapes women, throws suicide bombers into a group of people, throws gay people from roofs, going on a killing spree at a church, arf.

I also wouldn't really blame the term religion but the scripts that tell those people do to such things, arf. Also  Crazy  people are all over the place, arf.

But your argument can be turned against you with ease, arf.

Here, let me show you, arf:

While you say that it is the grace of God who shields you against the devil or so to say your believe in him, arf. Would you go killing and sinning all over the place when you don't believe in God, arf?

Is religion just an invention to keep people from going to do whatever they like to do, arf? Just think about it for a moment, arf. Why fear humans if you have to fear God's wrath, arf?



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