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Forums - Movies & TV - The Fans Have Spoken, Last Jedi Drops A Massive 68%

I thought it was pretty fun, but there were definite issues with it.

For one, there's a couple of themes and messages investigated in the film such as when it's right to obey authority or go renegade when you're convinced it's necessary, or what acceptable losses are in achieving a victory, that are very muddled. In truth I could have liked this as both are definite grey areas, but the scenarios they came up with just seemed silly, as with the former they gave all the appearance of a lost cause until suddenly "Nah we had a plan the whole time", which is rather a slap in the face to the viewer. If he'd been some low-ranking nobody, sure, we'd buy that, but he was a high-ranking pilot with a history of disobeying orders who asked directly if any sort of plan was in place multiple times... it just seemed absurd that she didn't at least offer him a "we've got more planned than to simply sit here and die" to placate a known trouble maker.

For the latter (acceptable losses/love over hate) they had some odd action in which a sacrifice was prevented because "We'll win by saving what we love, not destroying what we hate". In truth, barring a damn miracle that did end up happening, by preventing that sacrifice she had essentially doomed both of them and the rest of their cause. It seemed like an absolutely juvenile message, as when facing the truly monstrous sometimes the only way to save what you love IS to destroy what you hate. If handled differently that message could have worked, but the stakes of the moment made both her decision and the other guy's decision to "pull back" and avoid more losses just bizarre... they had almost no time left and zero indication that anyone was coming to help.

Otherwise, there were just too many missed opportunities that seemingly resulted from the desire to be unpredictable. For instance, Luke's X-Wing was underwater again just as it was stuck there on Dagobah when he still doubted the force; the symbolic moment where he raises it from the water with ease as Yoda had done for him previously when he accepts the force back into his heart and decides he can no longer sit on the sidelines would have been beautiful and had been expertly staged... except, of course, it never happened.

Likewise, it ended up having another moment akin to Jurassic World's park full of people. There we had a park stuffed to the brim with people and surrounded by dinosaurs, and the movie at that point appears as if it should write itself, but for whatever reason they're only briefly harassed by pterodactyls and then the entire crowd manages to get to safety. What should have been a friggin' dino buffet was completely missed.

It's difficult to explain the similar scenario in this film without spoilers, but Luke near the end had the potential to finally have his "Vader in Rogue One" moment, where he puts a lifetime of training as the most powerful Jedi of his era to use and just stuns the audience with his abilities... but they went with a more gimmicky approach and did none of that. I'm sorry, but Mark Hammil is still superb as Luke (he was easily the most interesting character of the new trilogy so far in my opinion), and that character deserved a far more impressive scene than he got. It still eats at me to think of the beautiful setup that was just standing across the field from him, begging him to be a badass one last time in order to save the cause he saved thirty years prior, and that they did not capitalize on that because, in my opinion, they again prioritized unpredictability over quality story telling.

Otherwise, there were more minor things that bugged me a bit... for one, and this here is a definite spoiler, I did not appreciate the way they just threw away Admiral Ackbar, only naming him after he'd died and showing him onscreen for a few seconds. For whatever reason they decided to bring in this pink-haired woman to take over the Rebel cause at one point, as apparently they believe the audience can only take human actors seriously. I believe we've shown through the years, though, that when an alien looks great (as in not terrible CGI) and has a convincing personality, we're perfectly willing to take them seriously.

It just seems to me that Ackbar should have taken the mantle of leadership and the heroic climax should have been his as well, rather than some human we'd never seen before that they tried to shoehorn an emotional attachment in for. Given people have loved Ackbar for decades and he's apparently been fighting in the rebel cause for at least 30 or 40 years, he deserved better. A movie should never entirely focus on fan-service, but when dealing with beloved characters one should treat them with more respect.

Finally, I'm still anxious for any background info on Snoake whatsoever. Given his incredible powers, his age, and injuries/wounds that absolutely beg for an explanation, I just freakin demand some information about who this man is and where he came from. The only thing that would make even the smallest sliver of sense would be if he were somehow Emperor Palpatine that had survived both being tossed by Vader and the explosion of the Death Star, mostly because it actually happened in the now non-canon expanded universe. That that seems like the most likely origin of this man should suggest just how bizarre his existence is, as I certainly don't think he's Palpatine but who the heck is he, where did he come from, how did he take control of the Empire, and where was he hiding in the original trilogy? These questions need some dang answers.

To be fair though, I had a ton of issues with the Force Awakens as well. Many of the problems people seemed to have with this one weren't problems for me... I thought those cute little animals were a fine addition, offering some humor without actually playing an integral part of the movie, good for a couple of laughs and, more importantly, giving Chewbacca something to interact with so that he's not super depressed the entire time (no one likes a sad Chewie). It was nice to see Leia finally showcase her connection to the force after years of only being told that she had one, and I do hope that perhaps in the third film (which I suspect they'll set a decent distance into the future) they'll say that Rey received training from Leia in the meantime.

Finally, the acting was pretty strong... there's a new girl who accompanied Finn throughout the film (I forget her name) that I mostly enjoyed but, and I feel she deserves a mention her, her sister was absolutely superb for her 60 or so seconds on the screen. Seriously, I was so immediately attached to her and emotionally affected by what she was going through that I found myself sad that she wouldn't herself become a recurring character. I don't know who that women was, but I think I may have been moved more by her minute or so on screen than any of the other characters in the film.

Overall then, it wasn't a bad film. Really, it had some interesting and unexpected twists, but it felt like there were one too many "fuck you's" to the audience, with those twists not so much being earned as being unjustified. I actually did enjoy it overall, but I will forever think of the culminating moment that almost was for Luke's character, standing out there on a silver platter, all for naught. Luke deserves much better, as did (to a much lesser extent) Ackbar.

This was no disaster of a film, though, and it really points (in my mind) to them attempting to finally achieve the "balance" of the force that they prophesied with Anakin two generations prior; we now have two young loose-cannons as the primary wielders of the force left in the galaxy, both without a proper master (unless Leia steps in) and both always on the edge of shifting sides. I'm not really sure where it goes from here but it's certainly an interesting premise, I just wish they'd reached this scenario a different way.



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StarOcean said:
thismeintiel said:

You don't have to say it.  Putting quotations around fans when talking about people who dislike the film says it all.

Well neither of you are fans, so it’s fine

Why? I put quotations on the "real fan" expresion cause i think is bullshit, does that makes me not a fan anymore or is just cause I didn't liked episode 1 and 2?



Lucas-Rio said:
StarOcean said:

I never said I liked TLJ. I said it was fine. It set up things I’m excited to see for Ep 9

It set up nothing except a Finn/Rose relationship (who want to see that?) and a future new fight between Rey and Kylo Ren.

But we already know that Kylo Ren can not do anything against Rey in 1vs1. Rey even saved him after he killed Snoke by surprise against the guards.

Uh, to be fair, he took out almost all of the guards on his own while she was struggling with one. He's the only reason she's alive to begin with.



Goodnightmoon said:
thismeintiel said:

You don't have to say it.  Putting quotations around fans when talking about people who dislike the film says it all.

You are a liar, out of all the coments I made about this (like 30) i put quotations on the word fan only ONCE and it was refering to those that for some reason were unable to see that some of those plotholes have perfectly easy explanations, some real fans as you call them didn't even remember Leia has the force, so it feels hard to believe they are such "real fans" while the rest aren't, the quotation was a parody of your own bullshit.

Super Leia is the least of anyone's problems, even though it is a little ridiculous considering she has never shown that type of power or has it ever been hinted at that she trained.  Still, you're only focusing on the smaller ones to make your argument correct.  So, how about you address one of the HUGE plotholes? 

In the ~18 hrs the Order had while following the rebel ship, why didn't they just have someone jump behind them?  Or in front of them?  Or hell, they had the tracker, why not jump themselves, then back right behind them or on the other side?  Or since lightspeed is now a weapon, have some small ships hit into it?  You won't because not only is there no answer, but to address that would completely destroy any believability in the movie's main plot line and give credence to the fact that the plot, at best, could have been used in a 15 min scene or be the plot of a half hour show, not a 2 1/2 hr movie.  And in accepting that, it would decrease your enjoyment in the film.



Lucas-Rio said:
TheDarkShape said:

Hamill also said that he thought Johnson was right in the end.

No he did not.

 

He said

 

"I said to Rian, ‘Jedi don’t give up.’ I mean, even if he had a problem, he would maybe take a year to try and regroup. But if he made a mistake, he would try and right that wrong. So, right there we had a fundamental difference, but it’s not my story anymore. It’s somebody else’s story — and Rian needed me to be a certain way to make the ending effective. …That’s the crux of my problem. Luke would never say that. I’m sorry. Well, in this version, see, I’m talking about the George Lucas Star Wars.

This is the next generation of Star Wars, so I almost had to think of Luke as another character,” he continued. “Maybe he’s Jake Skywalker. He’s not my Luke Skywalker, but I had to do what Rian wanted me to do because it serves the story well.

I still haven’t accepted it completely. But it’s only a movie,” Hamill said. “I hope people like it. I hope they don’t get upset, and I came to really believe that Rian was the exact man that they need for this job"

Forget words.  I think his face says it all. 



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Goodnightmoon said:
StarOcean said:

Well neither of you are fans, so it’s fine

Why? I put quotations on the "real fan" expresion cause i think is bullshit, does that makes me not a fan anymore or is just cause I didn't liked episode 1 and 2?

Talkin’ about him and Rio



Even with JJ back for episode 9, I think ep 8 destroyed so much the universe and thew away so many things of ep 7 that I think if they try to fix everything for ep9 it will be an even bigger mess



I’m almost 40, and I am what most would consider a REAL fan and I enjoyed it immensely. Probably 6th on my list.

1,2,3 - Original Trilogy
4 - Rouge One
5 - The Last Jedi
6 - The Force Awakens
Then those other movies....😂

This is a movie you enjoy or hate.

People calling others out as not being true fans because they may have enjoyed it is immature. Everyone has different tastes.

If you hated it that is cool. A few of my closest friends disliked this movie. A few others loved it. We are all longtime Star Wars fans and we all shared different opinions of this movie.

Last edited by TheTruthHurts! - on 24 December 2017

Lucas-Rio said:
StarOcean said:

That’s what he’s saying. 

 

Cut the BS. Nobody ever started to talk about the average EU.

THL just suck as a movie, and sucks even more as a star wars movie. Plain and simple. It has giant hole in its plots, uninteresting story, the destruction of Luke's characters, a uninteresting villain that is  much weaker than the heros and isn't even respected by its own troops.

It's just shitty.

This. Im not even a die hard fan although I watched all episodes a few times. TLJ is not even a good movie. Fun maybe in the 2nd half, lots of explosions and spe ial effets and jokes. But poorly written and edited. Its just a bad movie.



TheTruthHurts! said:
I’m almost 40, and I am what most would consider a REAL fan and I enjoyed it immensely. Probably 6th on my list.

1,2,3 - Original Trilogy
4 - Rouge One
5 - The Last Jedi
6 - The Force Awakens
Then those other movies....😂

This is a movie you enjoy or hate.

People calling others out advice not true fans because the may have enjoyed it is immature. Everyone has different tastes.

If you hated it that is cool. A few of my closest friends disliked this movie. A few others loved it. We are all longtime Star Wars fans and we all shared different opinions of this movie.

Thanks, following some people narratives here every single real fan hated it, meanwhile I know a dozen of long time fans that liked it but those aren't "real fans" for this people.