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Forums - Movies & TV - The Fans Have Spoken, Last Jedi Drops A Massive 68%

Azuren said:
Goodnightmoon said:

That's such a huge level of bullshit, typical excuse of nowadays and is gertting old really fast. The movie got those scores cause is a great blockbusters, easy as that.

So you're telling me that critic backlash doesn't exist?

 

Someone inform the Jimquisition that nothing happened early last year.

If TLJ had bad reviews then people would think critics don't like it, not that critics hate diversity, that's a Trump's voter level of stupidity and a terrible excuse.



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Goodnightmoon said:
Azuren said:

So you're telling me that critic backlash doesn't exist?

 

Someone inform the Jimquisition that nothing happened early last year.

If TLJ had bad reviews then people would think critics don't like it, not that critics hate diversity, that's a Trump's voter level of stupidity and a terrible excuse.

Quit injecting politics into a question that had none and answer the question directly or not at all.



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Azuren said:
Goodnightmoon said:

If TLJ had bad reviews then people would think critics don't like it, not that critics hate diversity, that's a Trump's voter level of stupidity and a terrible excuse.

Quit injecting politics into a question that had none and answer the question directly or not at all.

Dude, the problem is you make the wrong questions, does critic backlash exists? Yes, it does. Is that the reason why TLJ is considered great by 90% of them? No, absolutely not, critics do not love the movie just cause there is a black guy, a strong woman and an asian, that's stupid as fuck.



Goodnightmoon said:
Azuren said:

Quit injecting politics into a question that had none and answer the question directly or not at all.

Dude, the problem is you make the wrong questions, does critic backlash exists? Yes, it does. Is that the reason why TLJ is considered great by 90% of them? No, absolutely not, critics do not love the movie just cause there is a black guy, a strong woman and an asian, that's stupid as fuck.

And you'd have to have ignored the media for years to believe people don't lose their jobs for not being PC.



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irstupid said:
DakonBlackblade said:

Die hard Star War fans are salty because the movie doesn't fit any of the theories they spent the last two years throwing around, in a nutshell thats why it has any backlash from the so called "core fans" and is actualy loved by anyone who likes movies in general because it is a great movie. And this is the second movie in a trilogy, it would always have the worst BO of the 3, also its gona make way more than 1 billion $ worldwide so ye nice try.

From what I've read (haven't seen the movie yet) Star Wars fans are upset by what they did to Luke mostly. 

The movie sounds like it has a lot of plot holes and what not, but the biggest fault seems to be the Luke aspect.

Think of the DC movies for example. How many people HATE HATE HATE the new movies because that isn't their superman, or that isn't hteir batman. Too dark, killing, ect.

The same for Star Wars. Luke is the Superman/Batman of that universe. You need to treat him with respect. If you make him into something everyone (Mark Hamill included) doesn't like, then they will hate the movie. 

Compare the treatment of Luke Skywalker to the treatment of Deadpool in Wolverine Origins. 

Theres no paralel with the DC movies whatsoever, the DC movies are bad movies. Visual effects are bad, plot is nonsensical, some of the acting is poor, editting is terrible (Suicide Squad is so badly editted it almost can't be considered a movie at all) and whatnot. Star Wars the Last Jedi on the other hand is a great movie, the critics love it cause it is a beatfully done piece of cinema,  the cinematography in some scenes is amongst the very best ever to grace our eyes, thats not hyperbole, there is a very real chance TLJ grabs some technical Oscars. The movie takes a lot of liberties and does a plethora of unexpected things regarding Star Wars lore tough, and since hardcore fans believe they are the owners of all Star Wars lore and if you do anything they don't agree with you need to burn in the Seven Circles of Hell, the movie is getting backlash, its pretty simple to understand.

Despite any of that it has flown over 1 billion $ worldwide already (surpassing Rogue One's total numbers within 2 weeks of release). Considering we always knew it would never reach anywhere near Force Awakens numbers (all the years of anticipation don't exist anymore and it is the second movie in a trilogy, historicaly always the least hyped of a 3 parter) its doing amazingly well even with the crazy fans rantting and smear campaign.

Last edited by DakonBlackblade - on 01 January 2018

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NightlyPoe said:
thismeintiel said:

The point is no one expected it to be this low. Definitely not Disney.

Stated without evidence.  Disney knows the business.  They saw the calendar.  They knew yearly releases would deaden the specialness of the movies.  They knew that the foreign market largely never cared about Star Wars in the first place.

Your entire argument keeps coming down to pointing at The Force Awakens.  Everyone, but you, apparently knew that The Last Jedi was unlikely to reach anywhere near those heights.  Heck, I'm pretty sure you knew as well, but you've chosen to use the impossible standard as a cudgel. 

And you state your opinion without evidence. You are right that Disney knows the business. If they honestly believed the calender was all it took to be 31% down after just 17 days, which amounts to being $450M+ down WW, they wouldn't release it at this time of year. The fact is the calendar means jack. Xmas eve and New Year's eve are just two days. There are plenty of days for people to go watch if they wanted to, which would make up a lot of the losses. Instead they only grew.

And no, my argument comes down to an obvious fan backlash, which has manifested itself in low user ratings, countless negative YouTube videos and tweets, and a massive drop in BO revenue. It also includes comparisons to the OG trilogy. At 5 weeks in, ESB was 230% above ANH, $47.3M VS $20.5M. ANH followed a trajectory more like Avatar, where it opened lower, but stayed consistent. ESB followed one more like the common blockbuster, opening big and then seeing declines, though it saw small ones and a few rises.  At 41 weeks, ANH was only $6.1M above ESB, meaning that if ESB was only out in theaters for 41 weeks, it would only be down by 3%. But, for the sake of argument, let's say it had a full year, or 52 weeks (I can't really find any concrete data on how long its initial run was), at the theater. If we had all the data, I would not be surprised that that gap only grew to being 10%-12%down. The only reason it grew to 32% is because ANH had an extra ~6 months at the box office.

So, you guys can continue to have your blinders on and believe there is no backlash and only the calendar (lol) caused the movie to be this far off, but I choose to live in the real world. Also, the foreign markets don't care about SW? Bwahahaha. That's a riot, man. You here all week?  

Last edited by thismeintiel - on 01 January 2018

Azuren said:
Goodnightmoon said:

Dude, the problem is you make the wrong questions, does critic backlash exists? Yes, it does. Is that the reason why TLJ is considered great by 90% of them? No, absolutely not, critics do not love the movie just cause there is a black guy, a strong woman and an asian, that's stupid as fuck.

And you'd have to have ignored the media for years to believe people don't lose their jobs for not being PC.

Take a look at Bright. Critics hate it, yet users seemed to have enjoyed it. It's almost the polar opposite of this situation. Personally, I think the only reason that they hated on Bright is because the writer, Max Landis, had the audacity (read common sense) to call Rey a Mary Sue on Twitter. 



epicurean said:
Goodnightmoon said:

That's such a huge level of bullshit, typical excuse of nowadays and is gertting old really fast. The movie got those scores cause is a great blockbusters, easy as that.

I have no idea what the reason was (I doubt it has anything to do with diverse leads), but I have never left a movie more confused about how it was so loved by critics. I truly felt the movie was trash, not just because it didn't live up to my expectations, but just that it failed as a basic movie with a decent plot and character development. It just screams terrible to me.

I'm 39 years old and have no idea how many movies and critic reviews I've read, and I've never even considered this before for any other movie, but I have to wonder if there was money given to critics or SOMETHING that influenced them. I understand there can be different opinions, but the near universal praise just doesn't make sense.

Star Wars is a huge franchise and having access to that franchise means needing to go through Disney. Not everyone is invited to a press screening, a privilege that can be revoked at any time which means your review gets out later than all the other reviews which in turn costs you visits of your review website.

That's one way critics could be influenced.



thismeintiel said:
NightlyPoe said:

Stated without evidence.  Disney knows the business.  They saw the calendar.  They knew yearly releases would deaden the specialness of the movies.  They knew that the foreign market largely never cared about Star Wars in the first place.

Your entire argument keeps coming down to pointing at The Force Awakens.  Everyone, but you, apparently knew that The Last Jedi was unlikely to reach anywhere near those heights.  Heck, I'm pretty sure you knew as well, but you've chosen to use the impossible standard as a cudgel. 

And you state your opinion without evidence. You are right that Disney knows the business. If they honestly believed the calender was all it took to be 31% down after just 17 days, which amounts to being $450M+ down, they wouldn't release it at this time of year. The fact is the calendar means jack. Xmas eve and New Year's eve is just two days. There are plenty of days for people to go watch if they wanted to, which would  make up a lot of the losses. Instead they only grew.

And no, my argument comes down to an obvious fan backlash, which has manifested itself in low user ratings, countless negative YouTube videos and tweets, and a massive drop in BO revenue. It also includes comparisons to the OG trilogy. At 5 weeks in, ESB was 230% above ANH, $47.3M VS $20.5M.  ANH followed a trajectory more like Avatar, where it opened lower, but stayed consistent. ESB followed one more like the common blockbuster, opening big and then seeing declines, though it saw small ones and a few rises.  At 41 weeks, ANH was only $6.1M above ESB, meaning that if ESB was only out in theaters for 41 weeks, it would only be down by 3%.  But, for the sake of argument, let's say it had a full year, or 52 weeks (I can't really find any concrete data on how long its initial run was), at the theater. If we had all the data, I would not be surprised that that gap only grew to being 10%-15% down. The only reason it grew to 32% is because ANH had an extra ~6 months at the box office.

So, you guys can continue to have your blinders on and believe there is no backlash and only the calendar (lol) caused the movie to be this far off, but I choose to live in the real world. Also, the foreign markets don't care about SW? Bwahahaha. That's a riot, man. You here all week?  

Saying that evidence of a backlash having any negative impact is that this movies is not managing to do the same number as the second greatest BO of all time and the bigest USA BO of all time is shortsighted to say the least. Ep VIII will likely end in the 1.3 - 1.5 bil neighborhood, and thats considering it had none of the anticipation built over the years of no Star Wars that ep VII had and that it is the second movie in a trilogy, wich is historicaly always the worst performer out of a 3 parter. If the backlash is affecting BO its is having no significant effect whatsoever, this movie is faring as well as could be expected, considering its second week overall numbers maybe even a bit better than that since it has already surpassed Rogue One in this short amount of time.

KLAMarine said: 

Star Wars is a huge franchise and having access to that franchise means needing to go through Disney. Not everyone is invited to a press screening, a privilege that can be revoked at any time which means your review gets out later than all the other reviews which in turn costs you visits of your review website.

That's one way critics could be influenced.

Just stop, there is no way to influence or to "buy" millions of critics from hundreds of different countrys around the world. This bulshit conspiracy theory has gone too far. Disney somehow always buy critics and yet Warner, Sony and other studios don't, its nonsensical to the extreme that anyone actualy believes that. Seriously ppl the answer here isn't some crazy scheme, it is the simple fact the movie is great. Is it different from the usual Star Wars film ? Ye it definetly is, very different Id say so. But all that aside, as a movie, evaluating solely what is being presented on screen, it is a fantastic piece of cinema.

Last edited by DakonBlackblade - on 01 January 2018

DakonBlackblade said:
thismeintiel said:

And you state your opinion without evidence. You are right that Disney knows the business. If they honestly believed the calender was all it took to be 31% down after just 17 days, which amounts to being $450M+ down, they wouldn't release it at this time of year. The fact is the calendar means jack. Xmas eve and New Year's eve is just two days. There are plenty of days for people to go watch if they wanted to, which would  make up a lot of the losses. Instead they only grew.

And no, my argument comes down to an obvious fan backlash, which has manifested itself in low user ratings, countless negative YouTube videos and tweets, and a massive drop in BO revenue. It also includes comparisons to the OG trilogy. At 5 weeks in, ESB was 230% above ANH, $47.3M VS $20.5M.  ANH followed a trajectory more like Avatar, where it opened lower, but stayed consistent. ESB followed one more like the common blockbuster, opening big and then seeing declines, though it saw small ones and a few rises.  At 41 weeks, ANH was only $6.1M above ESB, meaning that if ESB was only out in theaters for 41 weeks, it would only be down by 3%.  But, for the sake of argument, let's say it had a full year, or 52 weeks (I can't really find any concrete data on how long its initial run was), at the theater. If we had all the data, I would not be surprised that that gap only grew to being 10%-15% down. The only reason it grew to 32% is because ANH had an extra ~6 months at the box office.

So, you guys can continue to have your blinders on and believe there is no backlash and only the calendar (lol) caused the movie to be this far off, but I choose to live in the real world. Also, the foreign markets don't care about SW? Bwahahaha. That's a riot, man. You here all week?  

Saying that evidence of a backlash having any negative impact is that this movie sis not managing to do the same number sas the second greatest BO of all time and the bigest USA BO of all times is shortsighted ot say the least. TLJ will likely end in the 1.3 - 1.5 bil neighborhood, and thats considering it had none of the years of no Star Wars that ep VII had and that it is the second movie ina  trilogy, wich is historicaly always the worst performer out of a 3 parter.

KLAMarine said: 

Star Wars is a huge franchise and having access to that franchise means needing to go through Disney. Not everyone is invited to a press screening, a privilege that can be revoked at any time which means your review gets out later than all the other reviews which in turn costs you visits of your review website.

That's one way critics could be influenced.

Just stop, there sis not way to ingluence or to "buy" millions of critics from hundreds of different countrys. This bulshit conspiracy theoru has gone too far. Disney somehow always buy critics and yet Warner doesn't. Seriously ppl the answer here isn't some crazy scheme, it is the simple fact the movie is great. is it quite different from the usual Star Wars film ? Ye it definetly is. But all that aside, as a movie, evaluating solely what is being present on screen, it is a fantastic piece of cinema.

" millions of critics" - uhhhhh?

I just feel like we must have seen different movies. I don't want there to be conspiracies or anything, but that movie was really, really bad. Like I said, I've never had such a disconnect with critics before, and there seems to be a lot of other people who feel the same. I don't know what this "smear" campaign is you're talking about, other than people just really hated the movie.



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