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Forums - Movies & TV - The Fans Have Spoken, Last Jedi Drops A Massive 68%

Lucas-Rio on 28 December 2017
thismeintiel said:
Lucas-Rio said:

 

 

In TLJ, she defeat Kylo Ren once more, she even saves his life against Snoke's guard, she saves the rebellion at the end coming the millenium and opening the escape road and she defeat Luke Skywalker in 5 seconds on the island.

Granted, Snoke toy with her easily. Snoke was overly cheated but Rey is still way too powerful, much more than Kylo Ren.

Also, remember that much of what Snoke said turned out to BS.  He couldn't read Kylo's mind and he didn't create the link between them, because we see them do it again after he is dead.  She also lifted a huge pile of boulders with absolutely no effort whatsoever, even though she was never trained to even lift one. 

And like I told someone before, a Mary Sue is a Mary Sue, not because she has no obstacles, its because the few real obstacles she has she overcomes them quickly and with little effort.  Most of the time it is by herself, but sometimes it is with a little help with a character that is infatuated with her.  All of which applies to both films.

Mary Sue is a fanfiction term....

The new trilogy is sometimes close to the fanfiction but is actually canon. Still Rey is too powerful and has no interesting development. She was completely stalled in episode 8.



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thismeintiel on 28 December 2017
Lucas-Rio said:
thismeintiel said:

Also, remember that much of what Snoke said turned out to BS.  He couldn't read Kylo's mind and he didn't create the link between them, because we see them do it again after he is dead.  She also lifted a huge pile of boulders with absolutely no effort whatsoever, even though she was never trained to even lift one. 

And like I told someone before, a Mary Sue is a Mary Sue, not because she has no obstacles, its because the few real obstacles she has she overcomes them quickly and with little effort.  Most of the time it is by herself, but sometimes it is with a little help with a character that is infatuated with her.  All of which applies to both films.

Mary Sue is a fanfiction term....

The new trilogy is sometimes close to the fanfiction but is actually canon. Still Rey is too powerful and has no interesting development. She was completely stalled in episode 8.

Yes, Mary Sue started out as a fan fiction term, but it can still be applied to actual movies.  Even big budget canon films.



 

Mr.GameCrazy on 28 December 2017
Lucas-Rio said:
NightlyPoe said:

I would point out that the "Mary Sue" problem is basically a The Force Awakens issue.  In The Last Jedi, Luke tells Rey to buzz off, causing her to immediately fail her primary mission of bringing Luke back.  Luke doesn't like her and neither do the Jedi nun thingies.  She has a lightsaber accident.  She spends much of the movie being manipulated by Snoke.  She seeks answers within the Dark Side.  She is alternatively toyed with and rag-dolled by Snoke when they meet.  She has to be saved by Ben.  Her hope that Ben can be saved is spurned.  We learn that she's been lying to herself about her parents her entire life.

Basically, Rey had a crappy movie for herself.  The only things she really accomplishes are putting Luke in a mindset where Yoda could knock some sense into him and swooping in at the last minute to save a vestige of the Resistance.  Literally a small enough group that they could comfortably fit on the Millennium Falcon.  The overpowered Rey issues are leftovers from the incompetence of Abrams and not nearly as bad this time.  I think her biggest Force accomplishment was moving the rocks.



In TLJ, she defeat Kylo Ren once more, she even saves his life against Snoke's guard, she saves the rebellion at the end coming the millenium and opening the escape road and she defeat Luke Skywalker in 5 seconds on the island.

Granted, Snoke toy with her easily. Snoke was overly cheated but Rey is still way too powerful, much more than Kylo Ren.

I'm sorry, but how did Rey beat Kylo Ren in The Last Jedi? By running off after both of them broke Anakin's lightsaber in 2 pieces?



Illusion on 28 December 2017

I am reluctant to post here as I am boycotting the Last Jedi due to the overt political feminism from episode VII. That said, because I am a part of the reason why the box office sales are down I at least thought that I would share my opinion on the subject.

Watching a female lead protagonist struggle with normal human issues and have regular character flaws and who needs both men and women in her life to succeed is interesting (ie. Captain Janeway). Having a female protagonist who is a super-human with no possible weaknesses and her only impediment are the bumbling pig-headed men around her who only serve to reinforce how superior she is to them is NOT interesting. Disney has successfully turned Star Wars into a hyper-politicized SJW mess and I will not watch anymore entries in the Star Wars series until there is a change. Disney has honestly made me respect the prequels more.



Lucas-Rio on 28 December 2017
Mr.GameCrazy said:
Lucas-Rio said:



In TLJ, she defeat Kylo Ren once more, she even saves his life against Snoke's guard, she saves the rebellion at the end coming the millenium and opening the escape road and she defeat Luke Skywalker in 5 seconds on the island.

Granted, Snoke toy with her easily. Snoke was overly cheated but Rey is still way too powerful, much more than Kylo Ren.

I'm sorry, but how did Rey beat Kylo Ren in The Last Jedi? By running off after both of them broke Anakin's lightsaber in 2 pieces?

Yes that part...... at the end Kylo Ren is knocked out , and awaken when Hux is about to shot him. Rey is long gone.



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Mandalore76 on 28 December 2017
thismeintiel said:
Lucas-Rio said:

 

 

In TLJ, she defeat Kylo Ren once more, she even saves his life against Snoke's guard, she saves the rebellion at the end coming the millenium and opening the escape road and she defeat Luke Skywalker in 5 seconds on the island.

Granted, Snoke toy with her easily. Snoke was overly cheated but Rey is still way too powerful, much more than Kylo Ren.

Also, remember that much of what Snoke said turned out to BS.  He couldn't read Kylo's mind and he didn't create the link between them, because we see them do it again after he is dead.  She also lifted a huge pile of boulders with absolutely no effort whatsoever, even though she was never trained to even lift one. 

And like I told someone before, a Mary Sue is a Mary Sue, not because she has no obstacles, its because the few real obstacles she has she overcomes them quickly and with little effort.  Most of the time it is by herself, but sometimes it is with a little help with a character that is infatuated with her.  All of which applies to both films.

I disagree with your assessment of the Snoke scenes.  I think Snoke did create the link between them.  Upon the first link, Kylo even asks Rey if she is the one doing it, before acknowledging that it couldn't possibly be coming from her.  Just because it still remained afterwards doesn't mean that Snoke wasn't the one who "opened" it.  Also, Snoke actually read Kylo's mind pretty clearly.  He sensed Kylo turning the lightsaber (Snoke was focused on the wrong one, because of his arrogance) and sensed Kylo's determination to "strike down his true enemy".  What Snoke didn't know was that Kylo considered his master to be "his true enemy".  Knowing that Snoke could read his mind, Kylo purposefully concentrated on ambiguities that would be misread by Snoke.  Again, because Snoke was too arrogant to see any other possibility.  



KLAMarine on 28 December 2017
Azuren said:
Pavolink said:

Rey = Mary Sue
Live in denial or in acceptance. Choose wisely your side.

https://youtu.be/PE2at2Wo9sU

I love this video! Good to see its views are climbing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE2at2Wo9sU



thismeintiel on 28 December 2017
Mandalore76 said:
thismeintiel said:

Also, remember that much of what Snoke said turned out to BS.  He couldn't read Kylo's mind and he didn't create the link between them, because we see them do it again after he is dead.  She also lifted a huge pile of boulders with absolutely no effort whatsoever, even though she was never trained to even lift one. 

And like I told someone before, a Mary Sue is a Mary Sue, not because she has no obstacles, its because the few real obstacles she has she overcomes them quickly and with little effort.  Most of the time it is by herself, but sometimes it is with a little help with a character that is infatuated with her.  All of which applies to both films.

I disagree with your assessment of the Snoke scenes.  I think Snoke did create the link between them.  Upon the first link, Kylo even asks Rey if she is the one doing it, before acknowledging that it couldn't possibly be coming from her.  Just because it still remained afterwards doesn't mean that Snoke wasn't the one who "opened" it.  Also, Snoke actually read Kylo's mind pretty clearly.  He sensed Kylo turning the lightsaber (Snoke was focused on the wrong one, because of his arrogance) and sensed Kylo's determination to "strike down his true enemy".  What Snoke didn't know was that Kylo considered his master to be "his true enemy".  Knowing that Snoke could read his mind, Kylo purposefully concentrated on ambiguities that would be misread by Snoke.  Again, because Snoke was too arrogant to see any other possibility.  

Snoke wasn't arrogant.  He was an idiot.  A poorly written villain who was just in charge, just cause the writers wanted the whole Emperor/Darth relationship, again.  Supposedly so powerful, that he was on the level of the Emperor, if not more powerful, yet couldn't even feel someone turning the object right next to him.  Not only did he go out like a bitch, he said some of the worst, on the nose, cringy dialogue right before it happened.  It was seriously right out of a parody film.

Again, another reason I hate this film.  Have a villain just to have one.  Don't give them any personality or make them intimidating.

We'll just have to disagree on the Snoke opening the door for them.  Even if you want to believe that, closing it and opening that door again must take as much power to open it.  Which still goes against what Kylo established, that it would kill her.  Well, unless it is yet another thing that goes for the argument that she is a Mary Sue.

Last edited by thismeintiel - on 28 December 2017

 

thismeintiel on 28 December 2017
Lucas-Rio said:
Mr.GameCrazy said:

I'm sorry, but how did Rey beat Kylo Ren in The Last Jedi? By running off after both of them broke Anakin's lightsaber in 2 pieces?

Yes that part...... at the end Kylo Ren is knocked out , and awaken when Hux is about to shot him. Rey is long gone.

Mary Sue at it, again.  LOL.  The guy trained for a decade or so is instantly knocked for, probably, 30 mins of in movie time from that blast.  Yet Mary Sue instantly gets up and has enough time to leave the ship and be reunited with the MF and Chewy, of course, in time to save the day.

Edit:  Which begs the question, where the fuck did she go when she left?  So, Kylo was knocked out long enough for her to escape.  Yet, he gets to the planet before she does AND has enough time to send down the Super AT-ATs.  They seriously just wanted that shot of her coming in to save the day.

Last edited by thismeintiel - on 28 December 2017

 

Lucas-Rio on 28 December 2017
NightlyPoe said:
 

 

Lucas-Rio said:

 

 

In TLJ, she defeat Kylo Ren once more, she even saves his life against Snoke's guard, she saves the rebellion at the end coming the millenium and opening the escape road and she defeat Luke Skywalker in 5 seconds on the island.

Granted, Snoke toy with her easily. Snoke was overly cheated but Rey is still way too powerful, much more than Kylo Ren.

Rey never defeated Kylo Ren in TLJ.  They broke the lightsaber and she got away in the chaos after the vice-admiral took out the ship.  And Luke bested her in actual combat, he only lost when she brought out a lightsaber and all he had was a stick.  I also doubt that Kylo Ren was ever about to lose to that red shirt.

Rey sent Luke, a once powerful Jedi, on the ground in 5 seconds .

Rey neutralized Kylo Ren after saving its life and left the ship unscathed while Kylo Ren was out, awakening up just in time to not be killed by Hux.