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Forums - Movies & TV - The Fans Have Spoken, Last Jedi Drops A Massive 68%

Azuren said:
Pavolink said:

Rey = Mary Sue
Live in denial or in acceptance. Choose wisely your side.

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Anakin flew that Naboo ship in autopilot until it was in the middle of the fight. R2 had to disable it so Anakin(g) could fly freely and barely made it because of the mess during the conflict. Pure luck.

He got his flying skills after years because of the force and experiencie with the high speed pod racers. Luke never came close to his father skills, but was a good pilot.



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JakDaSnack said:
Azuren said:

1. It is, actually. When discussing the Death Star run, he points out that he bullseye's target that small all the time in spite of more experienced pilots commenting on how impossible that is.

 

2. And then made Rey a better pilot than Poe and a better warrior than Finn.

 

3. Rey's lack of understanding on how to use blasters and her diminutive stature would imply she only ever defended herself, yet she had zero issue taking down bounty hunters coming after BB-8. Yeah, no.

 

4. And Luke spent most of his childhood training to use guns on ships (see no. 1), and that was Han's schtick. Rey admittedly never flew a ship like the Falcon before. Didn't stop her from being goddamn perfect at it.

 

5. Oh hey, thanks for proving that she's a Mary Sue. If you don't understand how her being naturally better at the Force than the fucking CHOSEN ONE makes her a Mary Sue, I suggest you just resign to watching your bad movies.

 

6. Then you clearly have no understanding of lightsabers. Zero weight in the nearly-infinite cutting edge makes for a dangerous and hard to use weapon. There's a reason non-force users avoid using lightsabers and why Jedi don't receive theirs until far into their training.

 

7. See number 5

 

8. A stormtrooper has zero effect on one's ability to aim. And again, it is referenced that Luke was a pretty good shot in his T-16.

 

9. See number 5

 

And I guess you failed to actually address any of them properly. Except 5, 7, and 9. Thanks for proving my point on those.

1.  It’s never established how good a pilot he is, he’s a whiny kid who brags about everything.  He got into his first X-wing and destroyed a Death Star while a bunch of veterans couldn’t.  Speaking of, Luke was the one who destroyed the Death Star and seemingly saved the galaxy(until ESB came out).  What did Rey do?  Abandoned her friends, got captured, nearly killed before Finn saved her.  Yup, total Mary Sue. 

2. Because she dodged 2 tie fighters while piloting the fastest ship in the galaxy?  Please.  Poe took out like a zillion ships on his X-wing and destroyed starkiller based.  Frankly, the fact that you think that makes your entire argument crumble.  As for Finn, well, he’s a stormtrooper, do you remember what happened to stormtroopers Endor?  lol ok that was a bad joke.  But they never established Finn as a great warrior, just a stormtrooper with a heart who apparently likes blasters.  And he does eventually take down Phasma, and Traitor. 

3.  She had a lot of conflict, remember she almost gave BB-8 up for some food.  But she quickly grew attached to BB-8, I mean, do you seriously think she wouldn’t defend BB-8 after just giving up her chance to sell him?  Um, no

4.  A couple comments from a whiny ass kid doesn’t make it fact.  He never fired those turrets before.  Rey had trouble flying the falcon at first before she started to get the hang of it.  Luke was perfect from the beginning. 

5. You didn’t make a point, instead just mocked.  So there is no reason for me to comment further.  If you don’t have anything to add, then please feel free to resign.

6. Yet Finn had no issues wielding one for the first time.  despite him only knowing how to use blasters.

7. See number 5

8. Yup, no one but Luke mentions his skill, yet somehow is amazing at everything.  Rey had a couple lucky shots after missing and suddenly she’s a Mary Sue.

9. See 5.

Lol, apparently I’m not proper enough.

Not sure if we watched the same movie! I'm not sure but I think you're just messing with him, now.

1. Rey saved herself! Jedi mind trick, etc. When Finn got there, she was already free! Luke used the Force to make that shot on the Death Star--with Obi Wan guiding him.

 

2. She was pretty darn amazing, flying the Falcon. So good she was able to line up the shot with the TIE Fighter when the turret was broken.

3. You know what, I'm sure your joking now! Lol! I was going to reply to everything!



d21lewis said:
JakDaSnack said:

1.  It’s never established how good a pilot he is, he’s a whiny kid who brags about everything.  He got into his first X-wing and destroyed a Death Star while a bunch of veterans couldn’t.  Speaking of, Luke was the one who destroyed the Death Star and seemingly saved the galaxy(until ESB came out).  What did Rey do?  Abandoned her friends, got captured, nearly killed before Finn saved her.  Yup, total Mary Sue. 

2. Because she dodged 2 tie fighters while piloting the fastest ship in the galaxy?  Please.  Poe took out like a zillion ships on his X-wing and destroyed starkiller based.  Frankly, the fact that you think that makes your entire argument crumble.  As for Finn, well, he’s a stormtrooper, do you remember what happened to stormtroopers Endor?  lol ok that was a bad joke.  But they never established Finn as a great warrior, just a stormtrooper with a heart who apparently likes blasters.  And he does eventually take down Phasma, and Traitor. 

3.  She had a lot of conflict, remember she almost gave BB-8 up for some food.  But she quickly grew attached to BB-8, I mean, do you seriously think she wouldn’t defend BB-8 after just giving up her chance to sell him?  Um, no

4.  A couple comments from a whiny ass kid doesn’t make it fact.  He never fired those turrets before.  Rey had trouble flying the falcon at first before she started to get the hang of it.  Luke was perfect from the beginning. 

5. You didn’t make a point, instead just mocked.  So there is no reason for me to comment further.  If you don’t have anything to add, then please feel free to resign.

6. Yet Finn had no issues wielding one for the first time.  despite him only knowing how to use blasters.

7. See number 5

8. Yup, no one but Luke mentions his skill, yet somehow is amazing at everything.  Rey had a couple lucky shots after missing and suddenly she’s a Mary Sue.

9. See 5.

Lol, apparently I’m not proper enough.

Not sure if we watched the same movie! I'm not sure but I think you're just messing with him, now.

1. Rey saved herself! Jedi mind trick, etc. When Finn got there, she was already free! Luke used the Force to make that shot on the Death Star--with Obi Wan guiding him.

 

2. She was pretty darn amazing, flying the Falcon. So good she was able to line up the shot with the TIE Fighter when the turret was broken.

3. You know what, I'm sure your joking now! Lol! I was going to reply to everything!

I'll just add that Luke destroyed the Death Star at the expense of many of his comrades during the mission. He was protected for the chance to get a good shoot. No mind tricks. No expert sable laser (lol, he got his ass beaten easily even after Yoda's training, and that at the end of the second movie). And no expert flying.

 

The real pilots were Chewie and Han.



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JakDaSnack said:
Azuren said:

1. Okay, you're just going to insist on being wrong despite the evidence.

 

2. She piloted the fastest ship in the galaxy through a crashed star destroyer and managed to position the ship in a way that aiming the blaster wasn't necessary. You're on a role with being wrong.

 

3. Except no she didn't, she thought about it for two seconds and didn't. And that doesn't have anything to do with her ability to take out three people who are actually trained on that sort of thing.

 

4. It makes it fact when it's supported in every bit of following lore, especially when you take into account that his father was also a badass pilot. Quit trying to brush off Luke's pilot skills just because you were wrong, it's a well-established fact in-verse.

 

5. Oh, let me break it down for you: when a character was previously hyped as the absolute Pinnacle of force powers, so much to the point that he was the chosen one, you can't just have someone who happens to be a perfect marksman, natural lightsaber dualist, and expert pilot ALSO be better at using the force than said chosen one with zero-to-no training on the subject. So again: thanks for proving she's a Mary Sue. In the future, I recommend you actually read and assess instead of getting upset that you've been proven incorrect.

 

6. And he lost both fights. Go fucking figure.

 

7. See number 5.

 

8. And so does Ben. Hurr. And technically, Rey only lined up one shot in the Falcon. The lucky shots were all Finn, and then Rey lined up the perfect one-shot after Finn's blaster rotation was disabled.

 

9. See number 5.

 

And no, you're not.

 

In my first post I made it clear that I was referring to the scope of ANH, not 40 years of established lore.

1. In the scope of ANH, I’m not.  His piloting skills don’t get established till later. Which is my point.  You have 40 years of established lore vs 2 movies.  

2. She also allowed the turret to get disabled.  Also you’re assuming piloting ships is hard. Friggin Anakin piloted a Naboo ship for the first time and managed just fine lol.  

3. She lived by herself for 20 years or whatever.  She obviously picked up a few things along the way.  Why else would she carry a bow staff?

4.  Again, In the scope of ANH it was far from fact.  If you add 40 years of lore then sure, he’s a great pilot. In 40 years you might find out that Rey was an even better pilot than Luke.  

5. Lol where did I say I was upset? And btw if you have to tell the other person over and over again that they are wrong, chances are it’s YOU that are wrong.  A Mary Sue is someone who has a lot of skills with little to no explanation as to how they got them.  Rey’s powers in the force get explained by both Luke and Snoke in TLJ.  Thus making her not a Mary Sue.  That was my point.  I already established how Rey was able to beat Ben, which you didn’t reply to, so I’ll leave that at bay.

6. Yup. Btw the point was that he could wield it(which he did) not that he was amazing at it. Luke’s lightsaber called to Rey, not Finn and not Kylo Ren.

Im gonna stop listing 7/9.

8. yup, took quite a lot of effort to take out 2 small tie fighters on a much faster, larger and stronger ship.

1. Only if you insist on not believing what is stated in the movie multiple times.

 

2. No she didn't. And piloting ships is hard. Anakin states he is able to pilot a Naboo fighter because it's similar to a pod racer.

 

3. Because she's needs self-defense. 20 years of scavenging doesn't prepare you for armed combat.

 

4. And again, this is only true if you blatantly disregard what is said in the movie. This is honestly your weakest argument at this point, and each time you argue it you show more and more how you actually don't know what you're talking about and instead showcase how unbelievably stubborn you can be in the face of hard evidence.

 

5. And if I make my own original character for the Star Wars universe and explain his godly skillset by saying something stupid like "he's an amalgamated reincarnation of Han, Like, Leia, and Anakin, guess what? It's still a Mary Sue. Explaining how they got the powers doesn't disqualify them as a Mary Sue. And when everyone is telling you a character is a Mary Sue and your leading argument is "but she wanted to go back to ____", guess what? You actually are wrong, and no amount of mental gymnastics will prove otherwise.

 

6. So your argument is that because he failed to wield it properly twice, that makes up for the fact that Rey wielded it over time to absolute success? Because "it called to her"? You're really not helping your argument that she isn't a Mary Sue.

 

8. You do know that TIE Fighters are extremely maneuverable and fast, right? That that on a planet with gravity while inside another space ship, the size advantage would go to the TIE Fighters?



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CaptainExplosion said:
Azuren said:

I personally have no problem with getting rid of the EU.

 

I do, however, take issue with giving everyone a Mary Sue and expecting everyone to love her to death. Especially when she was introduced alongside an actual GOOD character like Finn.

Mary Sue? I still fail to see Rei as a Mary Sue. Yes she kicked ass on Jaku, but she had to live their most of her life first.

Also, a real Mary Sue would've been a lot more levelheaded, and been able to take out Supreme Leader Snoke without a scratch on her.

Then you're just not paying attention, really. She's a better pilot than Han, a better mechanic than Chewy, a better Jedi than Anakin...



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Whelp, after TLJ's 2nd weekend + 2 extra days, so 5 days altogether, it still hasn't matched TFA 2nd weekend (3 days) drop of 39.8%. It's at a 42.4% drop. Guess it'll take 5 1/2 days to match TFA's 3 days. Of course, that is just percentages. In those 5 days, it dropped another $83M below TFA.

Two more interesting things I noticed. One, Disney seems to be keeping the Foreign Totals up to date. If I recall correctly, usually those are only updated after every weekend. Granted, I don't follow every movie, so this may be the norm for other films. Either way, they aren't painting the best picture. Not only did it make just $40M in the past two days in the Foreign markets, but the FT also just dipped below the DT.

If you remember, foreign markets made up almost 55% of the total gross of TFA. Now, it looks like the US is going to have the larger percentage of the total gross. Foreign markets are dropping quicker than the US markets are. Then, you also have the news that presales in China, the only major market it isn't available in, yet, were lower than even Rogue One. Like I said before, $1.5B was far from guaranteed.



It'll still make 1.5B... It will be over 900M by next weekend and linger in theaters for another month or more after that.



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CaptainExplosion said:
Azuren said:

I personally have no problem with getting rid of the EU.

 

I do, however, take issue with giving everyone a Mary Sue and expecting everyone to love her to death. Especially when she was introduced alongside an actual GOOD character like Finn.

Mary Sue? I still fail to see Rei as a Mary Sue. Yes she kicked ass on Jaku, but she had to live their most of her life first.

Also, a real Mary Sue would've been a lot more levelheaded, and been able to take out Supreme Leader Snoke without a scratch on her.

A Mary Sue isn't a Mary Sue because she has no obstacles in the story.  The Mary Sue has very little, and what ones she does have she conquers them easily and quickly, usually herself, but sometimes with the help of someone who is infatuated with her.  Which is what happened in the movie every time.  Most of the time she did it by herself, having powers or skills she has no right to be so proficient in.  Especially when it comes to the Force, using a lightsaber, and flying the MF.



I don't think the problem with Rey is that she's a "Mary Sue," so much, I mean she is obviously Force sensitive so she's going to be super powerful. I think the main problem is the pacing of her character's growth and lack of explanation/filling in the gaps there. Her character just feels pretty hollow and wooden. There are many times where she just suddenly seems to jump to a higher level of power with little reasoning. Luke had a much slower climb to his grasping of the Force and gaining power, and struggled more in doing so (and that was WITH the training of Obi Wan and then Yoda). The result is he feels a lot more human, which is why I think he has more of a lasting impact and many can relate to hm more than Rey, who almost seems robotic in her much quicker leap in power (not to mention relative lack of personality).

As an audience we need to be able to relate to a character by seeing them with flaws, and often undergo a long and arduous struggle to get from the bottom to the top. That's what makes the hero's journey so distinct and memorable, and why I think Star Wars was so impactful in the first place. I don't really get that sense with Rey so much. Without someone we can relate to as an audience, why bother? Why should we care about the larger story around it all?

Last edited by DarthMetalliCube - on 27 December 2017

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