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Forums - Politics - Alabama has elected a Democratic senator

 

A democrat has finally won in Alabama!

Sweet. Fuck Moore! 36 100.00%
 
Total:36
palou said:
VGPolyglot said:

He said he supported capital punishment, so obviously killing is fine, so there would have to be other reasons for it. The only one I can think of is sexism.

I think, then, you are not trying hard enough.

 

I could certainly think of several different moral schemes that could lead to that. While I don't personally support death penalty, I do support prison sentences, in some cases, for example. That does not mean that I think that locking people up is generally fine, just as he doesn't necessarily think that killing people is generally fine. It is perfectly reasonable to view actions differently based on context.

 

Also, the correct course of action, when you don't understand something, is to ask the person for insight, not make your own malicious conclusions.

I'll try to add on as someone who is anti-abortion and pro-death penalty.

We all in life want to live it out to the fullest. However, murder, rape, and other major crimes to me cause you to reach a point to where you basically lose the right to live, and the fact that I don't want my taxpayer dollars to go help a murderer or rapist. I believe in eye-for-eye, so I don't see it as a contradiction, besides, you cannot tell me you would let a murderer fly off when they may have killed someone close to you.

However, what did the baby do to you? You knowingly did it (DEPENDING on the circumstance, but in this case I am going for most common occurrences) and had plenty of time to either take the pill, wear protection, or just be careful, and yet it just happens because recklessness.  Everyone has a different point where they think life starts. Mine is conception. We were all a bundle of cells at one point, therefore that's where it starts to me. I am perfectly fine with birth control BEFORE conception, but at some point there's a line that's being crossed. The idea that anti-abortion people are sexist is inherently BS. I am in no way wanting to deny women's rights, but at the same time I can't deny the rights of the child in the womb. The child did nothing wrong and should not be killed on the basis of someone else's mistake. 

In summary, people who earned the death penalty have violated the law to the fullest extent where they in a way lose their right to live, but a baby hasn't even seen life, so how can you deny the opportunity for it to live?



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VGPolyglot said:
palou said:

I think, then, you are not trying hard enough.

 

I could certainly think of several different moral schemes that could lead to that. While I don't personally support death penalty, I do support prison sentences, in some cases, for example. That does not mean that I think that locking people up is generally fine, just as he doesn't necessarily think that killing people is generally fine. It is perfectly reasonable to view actions differently based on context.

 

Also, the correct course of action, when you don't understand something, is to ask the person for insight, not make your own malicious conclusions.

Do you support locking people up as a punishment? I don't myself, I support it as a means of rehabilitation and not as punishment. Now, I guess I should have gone about other means of conversing with him, but I assume my conclusion would have rested the same.

Indeed, I do not see it as punishment. For me, a sentence (monetary, or prison) can have three functions:

 

a) Rehabilitation, strictly in the interest of the convict;

 

b) Immediate risk management, measures to assure that a convict does not represent an immediate risk to society;

 

c) Disincentivization, measures to make committing a crime less appealing (example: a parking fine).

 

I think it is obvious that all three of these functions should legitimately be considered by our judiciary system, as a minimum. While a death penalty fails at the first, it is undeniable that it does fulfill the second and third, to some degree. I do not believe it to be the most effective method, and have other qualms with it's application, however, that is a complex topic that cannot be so simply dismissed. It certainly does not give you the right to judge another, without further inquiry on their belief system.



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deskpro2k3 said:
glad he lost, but damn that race was really close. like seriously almost half the Alabama population voted for Moore. wtf

Moore got half of the votes Trump got. While turnout was higher than expected, it was because of turnout for minorities, not the traditional Republican voting bloc. A lot of people that would have voted for Strange (his opponent in the runoffs) but either voted for write-in/Jones instead or stayed home completely. Had Jones been more palatable to Alabama (i.e. pro-life), he would have won by a giant margin. 



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VGPolyglot said:
palou said:

Now, don't get me wrong, I have no love for the American rightwing, but I definitely think that that's a rhetoric that is both heavily overgeneralizing and to the detriment of constructive discussion. 

 

The central piece of the abortion discussion is if the child/fetus, in that instance, can or cannot be qualified as a being with similar rights to a human. If you take that as true, then abortion is obviously wrong, if you take that as false, abortion is obviously fine. That's what needs to be discussed. Name-calling is uselessly provocative.

He said he supported capital punishment, so obviously killing is fine, so there would have to be other reasons for it. The only one I can think of is sexism.

Capital punishment is only an option for the most heinous of crimes. You could argue that it's a consequence of their actions.

An unborn child has done nothing wrong. They are completely pure and innocent. You can see why those who see abortion as murder would have a problem with someone they presume as innocent to be aborted.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

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VGPolyglot said:
palou said:

I think, then, you are not trying hard enough.

 

I could certainly think of several different moral schemes that could lead to that. While I don't personally support death penalty, I do support prison sentences, in some cases, for example. That does not mean that I think that locking people up is generally fine, just as he doesn't necessarily think that killing people is generally fine. It is perfectly reasonable to view actions differently based on context.

 

Also, the correct course of action, when you don't understand something, is to ask the person for insight, not make your own malicious conclusions.

Do you support locking people up as a punishment? I don't myself, I support it as a means of rehabilitation and not as punishment. Now, I guess I should have gone about other means of conversing with him, but I assume my conclusion would have rested the same.

Why would instantly assume I'm sexist, fuck you. You're pretty bloody naive if you think every human can be rehabilitated that's fairy tale talk, do I think it should be the main goal of jail yes the system is clearly flawed but it's clearly pointless with alot of people. (perfect way to dismiss someones opinion try and dehumanize them to squash opposing thought.)

 

Youre fallacy is thinking every human life is worth the same which isn't the case, actions have consequences and you have to bare them if youre not willing to live inside laws of the society. Every human should have access to a basic standard of human right but if you piss them away don't cry for the treatment they receive, which why I'm anti abortion you don't have the right to take a innocent life because you feel like it. 



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betacon said:
VGPolyglot said:

Do you support locking people up as a punishment? I don't myself, I support it as a means of rehabilitation and not as punishment. Now, I guess I should have gone about other means of conversing with him, but I assume my conclusion would have rested the same.

Why would instantly assume I'm sexist, fuck you. You're pretty bloody naive if you think every human can be rehabilitated that's fairy tale talk, do I think it should be the main goal of jail yes the system is clearly flawed but it's clearly pointless with alot of people. (perfect way to dismiss someones opinion try and dehumanize them to squash opposing thought.)

I didn't instantly assume you were sexist, which is why I asked if you support capital punishment.



VGPolyglot said:
betacon said:

Why would instantly assume I'm sexist, fuck you. You're pretty bloody naive if you think every human can be rehabilitated that's fairy tale talk, do I think it should be the main goal of jail yes the system is clearly flawed but it's clearly pointless with alot of people. (perfect way to dismiss someones opinion try and dehumanize them to squash opposing thought.)

I didn't instantly assume you were sexist, which is why I asked if you support capital punishment.

Poly... Please just drop it. The argument is dubious at best, and the conclusion fully unhelpful to advance the discussion.

 

While I don't believe in punitive justice, you *know* that there are people that do, so why continue to pretend that that's not a possibility?



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VGPolyglot said:
betacon said:

Why would instantly assume I'm sexist, fuck you. You're pretty bloody naive if you think every human can be rehabilitated that's fairy tale talk, do I think it should be the main goal of jail yes the system is clearly flawed but it's clearly pointless with alot of people. (perfect way to dismiss someones opinion try and dehumanize them to squash opposing thought.)

I didn't instantly assume you were sexist, which is why I asked if you support capital punishment.

You did though you jumped to conclusion from your own inner connections hence instantly assuming, also please explain why it's sexism you do understand the majority of women are anti abortion right? It's no male vs female.  



betacon said:
VGPolyglot said:

I didn't instantly assume you were sexist, which is why I asked if you support capital punishment.

you do understand the majority of women are anti abortion right? It's no male vs female.  

If you are talking about the US, that's inaccurate. 

 

Most US adults support abortion, for both genders, by a larger margin among women.

 

Here's one fairly reputable source, but you are free to confirm that with any other source you want.

 

http://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

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palou said:
betacon said:

you do understand the majority of women are anti abortion right? It's no male vs female.  

If you are talking about the US, that's inaccurate. 

 

Most US adults support abortion, for both genders, by a larger margin among women.

 

Here's one fairly reputable source, but you are free to confirm that with any other source you want.

 

http://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/

Regardless if it's different in America, the number which support or against are roughly the same cross both men and female, so again why would it be sexist mentality??