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Forums - Politics - Israel-Palestine: Which "solution" do you prefer?

deskpro2k3 said:
Aeolus451 said:

Oh the 1940s? You had to dig deep for that nugget.

I'm pretty sure that Palestinians have said and done worse. Again, it's best if Israelis control the area. They are the least likely to kill people. 

 

How about the present day. Terrorizing Palestinians.

Terrorizing? Aren't palestinians still doing their "days of rage" over an embassy being moved? I wonder what hamas said about Israel recently... 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hamas-has-called-for-a-new-%E2%80%98intifada%E2%80%99-against-israel-heres-what-that-means/ar-BBGm88Y?li=BBnb7Kz

*shrugs 



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h2ohno said:

This isn't entirely accurate.  The Canaanites were there first, divided into many city-states

You mean Phoenicians.  I go by the Greek name not some Hebrew Bible name.  Carthage actually spawned from a Phoenician settlement.



Shaked never said the mothers of all Palestinians should be killed. She said that the "mothers of the martyrs" should be killed. This is obviously also a very problematic thing to say, but it refers solely to the mothers of those who commit terrorist attacks. It is terrible. It is incitement. But it has not been government policy and she backtracked away from it, And anyone who says she called for all Palestinians or all mothers to be killed is peddling 'fake news.'

A useful test is to compare the how each society responds to their worst members or atrocities committed against the other side. In 2014, shortly before the Gaza war, Hamas terrorists kidnapped and murdered three Israeli teenagers. The result was celebrations throughout the West Bank and Gaza. Social media posts were full of people smiling and holding three fingers up in support of the murder of the three teenagers. The murders were largely seen as heroic.

Then a group of Jewish teenagers carried out a revenge killing of an Arab teenager. The result within Israeli society was near-universal horror and disgust, with some of the most right-wing settler leaders calling for the perpetrators to be killed. Incidentally, Shaked herself called for the perpetrators to be treated the same as any other murderers, including Arabs who murdered Jews. Israelis ostracize those who murder innocents. The Palestinians idolize them.



Aeolus451 said:
deskpro2k3 said:

 

How about the present day. Terrorizing Palestinians.

Terrorizing? Aren't palestinians still doing their "days of rage" over an embassy being moved? I wonder what hamas said about Israel recently... 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hamas-has-called-for-a-new-%E2%80%98intifada%E2%80%99-against-israel-heres-what-that-means/ar-BBGm88Y?li=BBnb7Kz

*shrugs 

 

Pretty sure Israel has been doing their own version of that. Actually, 100% certain of it.

Last edited by deskpro2k3 - on 11 December 2017

The two-state scenario is the only one that feels like a solution really, the other scenarios will just make the conflict worse or at best be status quo. But there are no good solutions. The Palestines don't have a good plan for a state, which will probably mean it will be another state highly based on sharia, seems that there are people here who wants that, which worries me a lot. In contrast to the most muslim-majority countries, Israel is a well-functioning state that put democracy, education, citizen rights, freedom of religion etc above the rules of the jewish religion. Integrated muslims, like in Haifa for instance, live in peace with Jews, a scenario I doubt would be possible in a Palestine state.
Israel is not above criticism, sure, they have done unfortunate things in the comflict, that has made it worse, the illegal settlements for instance. And why on Earth they choose Jerusalem as capital is beyond me, it is a medieval city compared to Tel Aviv, with mediocre infrastructure, and it's right in the middle of the conflict. They only choose it for religious/nationalistic reasons, which is really stupid.



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Personally, I'd opt for a multinational state. Unfortunatly that's not feasible as of now. The reality is that Israel has a huge regional power advantage. Palestine can't defend itself, nor can any of the Arab powers dent Israel.
The international community has always had a two-face approach towards Israel, scolding it for their action against the Palestinians, but taking advantage of Israel's strategic economic activities.

I'd whish the Palestinians all the best, but the reality will be that the state of Palestine will continue to erode in the forseeable future.

And I wish peace to both the people of Palestine and Israel.



h2ohno said:
Shaked never said the mothers of all Palestinians should be killed. She said that the "mothers of the martyrs" should be killed. This is obviously also a very problematic thing to say, but it refers solely to the mothers of those who commit terrorist attacks. It is terrible. It is incitement. But it has not been government policy and she backtracked away from it, And anyone who says she called for all Palestinians or all mothers to be killed is peddling 'fake news.'

A useful test is to compare the how each society responds to their worst members or atrocities committed against the other side. In 2014, shortly before the Gaza war, Hamas terrorists kidnapped and murdered three Israeli teenagers. The result was celebrations throughout the West Bank and Gaza. Social media posts were full of people smiling and holding three fingers up in support of the murder of the three teenagers. The murders were largely seen as heroic.

Then a group of Jewish teenagers carried out a revenge killing of an Arab teenager. The result within Israeli society was near-universal horror and disgust, with some of the most right-wing settler leaders calling for the perpetrators to be killed. Incidentally, Shaked herself called for the perpetrators to be treated the same as any other murderers, including Arabs who murdered Jews. Israelis ostracize those who murder innocents. The Palestinians idolize them.

 

The post was deleted, but an archived version remains.

“They have to die and their houses should be demolished so that they cannot bear any more terrorists,” Shaked said, adding, “They are all our enemies and their blood should be on our hands. This also applies to the mothers of the dead terrorists.”


“Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.”

 

coincidentally women and children make up a sizeable number of Palestinian fatalities caused by Israeli attacks in the region. I don't know about the celebrations part and other stuff. I remember Trump saying something similar about 9/11 cheering in NJ when he was campaigning for President, which was later proven false. IJS

I don't know how to fix it, but both sides have to come to the table and make a compromise. Somehow.

Last edited by deskpro2k3 - on 11 December 2017

Get rid of Israel and everything the stupid UN did back after WW2. They gave away land that wasn't theres to people out of pity. And now the people they pitied are acting as bad, if not worse, than how they were treated in WW2. They need to be kicked out and stay out. The fact that the US gov funds these neo-Nazi's is disgusting



StarOcean said:
Get rid of Israel and everything the stupid UN did back after WW2. They gave away land that wasn't theres to people out of pity. And now the people they pitied are acting as bad, if not worse, than how they were treated in WW2. They need to be kicked out and stay out. The fact that the US gov funds these neo-Nazi's is disgusting

....So Israel/jews are neo-nazis?



Aeolus451 said:
StarOcean said:
Get rid of Israel and everything the stupid UN did back after WW2. They gave away land that wasn't theres to people out of pity. And now the people they pitied are acting as bad, if not worse, than how they were treated in WW2. They need to be kicked out and stay out. The fact that the US gov funds these neo-Nazi's is disgusting

....So Israel/jews are neo-nazis?

Should give the Jews some US state that we don't even care about like North Dakota or Nebraska.  I bet they would turn Nebraska right around into a budget surplus.

Last edited by sethnintendo - on 11 December 2017