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Forums - Sales Discussion - Gran Turismo Sport debuts - another 1M opening

DonFerrari said:

You can say what you want but ND have done it when moving to TLOU (and decided to do UC4 because they wanted), Guerilla decided to move to Horizon, Sucker Punch moved to Tsushijima, MM moved to Dreams, there are plenty of examples of franchises being closed by Sony studios. They have the freedom to choose the project.

As I said, if Sony wants another UC they could move to a new studio, but I doubt they would FORCE ND to do it.

ND already moved on from Crash and Jax.

torok said:

So you don't need to know how something work to say it doesn't work like that? Ok then, nothing we say or happen will change your opinion.

You have to see the difference between those games. TLOU is not an example of moving forward because they actually launched an UC game afterwards.

Guerrilla moved from Killzone, an early attempt at a Halo-killer that never pushed past 3M per entry while it was supposed to sell like Halo. Sucker Punch did inFamous, another title that hardly cracks 2 or 3M. MM did LBP, that was more successful for sure. Either way, it's not a title that is directly connected to the pedigree of the studio like UC is, so it's easier to move on. Either way, it still sell less than half than UC.

Jax did 3M at best and was in a downward sales pattern. Crash ended because Sony's publishing deal with Vivendi ended. They had zero choice here.

With UC we are talking about what is, most likely, their top selling franchise. We are talking at 10M+ sales. I don't have to know how they work because letting a 10M seller die just because you like creative freedom is a terribly bad business decision that Sony won't make. Even moving it to a different developer looks like a bad idea, LBP3 was kind of a mess.



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torok said:
DonFerrari said:

You can say what you want but ND have done it when moving to TLOU (and decided to do UC4 because they wanted), Guerilla decided to move to Horizon, Sucker Punch moved to Tsushijima, MM moved to Dreams, there are plenty of examples of franchises being closed by Sony studios. They have the freedom to choose the project.

As I said, if Sony wants another UC they could move to a new studio, but I doubt they would FORCE ND to do it.

ND already moved on from Crash and Jax.

So you don't need to know how something work to say it doesn't work like that? Ok then, nothing we say or happen will change your opinion.

You have to see the difference between those games. TLOU is not an example of moving forward because they actually launched an UC game afterwards.

Guerrilla moved from Killzone, an early attempt at a Halo-killer that never pushed past 3M per entry while it was supposed to sell like Halo. Sucker Punch did inFamous, another title that hardly cracks 2 or 3M. MM did LBP, that was more successful for sure. Either way, it's not a title that is directly connected to the pedigree of the studio like UC is, so it's easier to move on. Either way, it still sell less than half than UC.

Jax did 3M at best and was in a downward sales pattern. Crash ended because Sony's publishing deal with Vivendi ended. They had zero choice here.

With UC we are talking about what is, most likely, their top selling franchise. We are talking at 10M+ sales. I don't have to know how they work because letting a 10M seller die just because you like creative freedom is a terribly bad business decision that Sony won't make. Even moving it to a different developer looks like a bad idea, LBP3 was kind of a mess.

So yes, you chose the stubbornness... doesn't matter all the cases of evidence showing the studios decide what they will launch and the pace (Japan have basically launched 1 small game for a full gen while sitting on Last Guardian for like 10 years; PD take the time they decide to take to make the GT they think they have to and launch when they think the shall). You seem to be confusing Sony with MS on mandating the IPs to have sequels (Even if Halo was to be finished on 3 and GoW contract was as well) or with Nintendo that will use their staples IPs to launch new games and concepts.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

wings said:
Errorist76 said:

You’re pretty pathetic judging something you haven’t even tried yourself. Other people’s opinions seem to matter more to you, than forming your own. Pretty sad actually. 

If you lack the ability to a civil debate don't quote me.   

Don't throw stones if you're sitting in a glass house buddy.



DonFerrari said:

So yes, you chose the stubbornness... doesn't matter all the cases of evidence showing the studios decide what they will launch and the pace (Japan have basically launched 1 small game for a full gen while sitting on Last Guardian for like 10 years; PD take the time they decide to take to make the GT they think they have to and launch when they think the shall). You seem to be confusing Sony with MS on mandating the IPs to have sequels (Even if Halo was to be finished on 3 and GoW contract was as well) or with Nintendo that will use their staples IPs to launch new games and concepts.

If that's what GTsport was then Sony needs to start being like MS and mandate some things.  

 

IMO what I think is PD simply went a new direction due to the fact they got outplayed at their own game, these days it's Forza that is what GT was.  While GTsport is just a spin off.  With it Pd fell back to what they're good at, crazy graphics great looking ui while avoiding competing with their competition head on.

I have great hope for GT7 if it comes or a entirely new GT.  They build a great engine and frame work, now they just need to flooded it with content.  They don't need a thousand cars, but they do need 400/500 of the right cars.  

I find it really weird that after 4 years of development GTsport is all they managed.  Barely a half a Gran Turismo, with less than 1/8th the cars of the previous title and less than half the tracks.  Something went wrong and/or they changed direction mid way.  

 



wings said:
Errorist76 said:

I don't know in which world you live where Metacritic scores define the actual quality of a game. All reviews actually were pretty clear about the fact they think it's an excellent racing game, simply a bit low on content. Some valued it higher, some lower...hence the good but not excellent score.

You'll find that most people who actually have played the game will have a different opinion, because they are able to rate the game as what it is and wants to be instead of what THEY want it to be, even though the game was announced as being online focused from day one.

The game has, as already stated 20-40, even 50 hours of single player content. You only played 5 of it, as you stated, so how would you know?! You're simply NOT CREDIBLE!

Weather was teased many times already. If you HAD played the game, you'd know it has snow and rain tires, functioning wipers, WET ROADS in the driving school (I even suspect you haven't even played that part or you'd know) already and, just as with GT5 back then, they teased rain in the last Zagato GT Vision video. Just google it, I won't post it here. Too lazy.

PD never had a history of over promising. It's just that they didn't think GT6 was worth continuing as they were planning to because not many people bought the game, due to its late release date in the gen when PS4 was already a thing.

Whatever....I won't react to any of your trolling anymore unless you have at least finished the driving school and 20-30 hour campaign in the game. You're simply not even entitled to HAVE an opinion if you've only played 5 hours in the game (which I still doubt that you even own the way you are arguing here)! 

And yes, I have an opinion, like most others here, who have played the game for days and weeks already.



its low meta says plenty about the game, whether you want to admit it or not.  

I'm on Gtplanet and there is a hell of alot discontent towards this game even there and i won't even get started on the comments on facebook or amazon.  Even about its supposedly greatest strength, the online racing with its broken penalty system.   

You have an inflated sense of that your opinion really matter that much.  Your opinion does not equal to a fact especially for others.  You love the game good for you, a hell of alot of people hate it and no amount of you saying other wise will change that.  And they are lifelong GT fans.  


I judge the game for what it is, not for the hopes some have for it in the future.  And right now to me and many other it is mediocre.   About 150 cars with many duplicates or fake vgt cars.  Only 17 tracks most fake ones.  How good can a racing game be when it lacks so many cars and track to race on.  

How credible are you ? you have no sense of objectivity.  ^ can't spin such paltry content.  

 

You’re forgetting one thing though - the game is still evolving. The metascore isn’t reflective of the game you’re playing now.



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MrRoops said:
DonFerrari said:

So yes, you chose the stubbornness... doesn't matter all the cases of evidence showing the studios decide what they will launch and the pace (Japan have basically launched 1 small game for a full gen while sitting on Last Guardian for like 10 years; PD take the time they decide to take to make the GT they think they have to and launch when they think the shall). You seem to be confusing Sony with MS on mandating the IPs to have sequels (Even if Halo was to be finished on 3 and GoW contract was as well) or with Nintendo that will use their staples IPs to launch new games and concepts.

If that's what GTsport was then Sony needs to start being like MS and mandate some things.  

IMO what I think is PD simply went a new direction due to the fact they got outplayed at their own game, these days it's Forza that is what GT was.  While GTsport is just a spin off.  With it Pd fell back to what they're good at, crazy graphics great looking ui while avoiding competing with their competition head on.

I have great hope for GT7 if it comes or a entirely new GT.  They build a great engine and frame work, now they just need to flooded it with content.  They don't need a thousand cars, but they do need 400/500 of the right cars.  

I find it really weird that after 4 years of development GTsport is all they managed.  Barely a half a Gran Turismo, with less than 1/8th the cars of the previous title and less than half the tracks.  Something went wrong and/or they changed direction mid way.  

Sony needs to do what MS is doing??? Like making FM that once sold almost 5M in a game that will sell 1M? Why would Sony destroy their franchise?

And no, Sony operates different than MS, they give their devs freedom to act and if the actions of the studio continuously fail to bring money they close the studio. But they don't mandate on them.

You know you are talking from your behind and have almost nill knowledge right? Go look at the size of the studio, what on GT5 and 6 were new content, etc to see how much they made for GTS to see if they are really lacking. 



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

Sony needs to do what MS is doing??? Like making FM that once sold almost 5M in a game that will sell 1M? Why would Sony destroy their franchise?

And no, Sony operates different than MS, they give their devs freedom to act and if the actions of the studio continuously fail to bring money they close the studio. But they don't mandate on them.

You know you are talking from your behind and have almost nill knowledge right? Go look at the size of the studio, what on GT5 and 6 were new content, etc to see how much they made for GTS to see if they are really lacking. 


Yahh they do, they need to control their devs especially from making massive mistakes that run a ten million selling franchise into the ground.  

Destroy their franchise is exactly what is happening right now.  And they have already managed to destroy evolution studios.  

Why are you making things up ? every Forza sales 2 million, H3 is probably past 3m with digital.  And don't pretend you don't understand yearly releasing and user base factoring into sales.   

Just because it's different does name make it the best thing, just look at the mess with racers.  They let both Evolution studios and PD take their racing games into a hard online direction and both suffered for it.  The was just dumb strategy nothing more.  At Least MS came up with a great strategy to expand their franchise yet seriously differentiated between them two and they been feeding their fanbase with awesome racers year after year while Sony had nothing but one failure in the same time frame.

They are lacking, in 4 years time the released half a game and in just two months had to announce adding GT mode due to the fan negativity they got and low sales.   Pd is not a small studio neither are they a huge one.  But the are clearly mismanaged, Kaz is way past his heyday and doesn't even understand his own fanbase.  Compare PD to their peers in the industry and what they achieved in Gtsport is less than them.  They are living of their brand name, but that's that's quickly coming to an end.



Lawlight said:

You’re forgetting one thing though - the game is still evolving. The metascore isn’t reflective of the game you’re playing now.

Two month in it's the same old game, anyone that payed full price for a broken prologue.  lol at you. 

 

Moderated - think-man

Last edited by think-man - on 13 December 2017

MrRoops said:
DonFerrari said:

Sony needs to do what MS is doing??? Like making FM that once sold almost 5M in a game that will sell 1M? Why would Sony destroy their franchise?

And no, Sony operates different than MS, they give their devs freedom to act and if the actions of the studio continuously fail to bring money they close the studio. But they don't mandate on them.

You know you are talking from your behind and have almost nill knowledge right? Go look at the size of the studio, what on GT5 and 6 were new content, etc to see how much they made for GTS to see if they are really lacking. 


Yahh they do, they need to control their devs especially from making massive mistakes that run a ten million selling franchise into the ground.  

Destroy their franchise is exactly what is happening right now.  And they have already managed to destroy evolution studios.  

Why are you making things up ? every Forza sales 2 million, H3 is probably past 3m with digital.  And don't pretend you don't understand yearly releasing and user base factoring into sales.   

Just because it's different does name make it the best thing, just look at the mess with racers.  They let both Evolution studios and PD take their racing games into a hard online direction and both suffered for it.  The was just dumb strategy nothing more.  At Least MS came up with a great strategy to expand their franchise yet seriously differentiated between them two and they been feeding their fanbase with awesome racers year after year while Sony had nothing but one failure in the same time frame.

They are lacking, in 4 years time the released half a game and in just two months had to announce adding GT mode due to the fan negativity they got and low sales.   Pd is not a small studio neither are they a huge one.  But the are clearly mismanaged, Kaz is way past his heyday and doesn't even understand his own fanbase.  Compare PD to their peers in the industry and what they achieved in Gtsport is less than them.  They are living of their brand name, but that's that's quickly coming to an end.

kkkkk the sum of the yearly sales of MS Forza is lower than what GT done on a single entry but you want sony to correct the franchise by copying  this. Not much we can discuss.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

kkkkk the sum of the yearly sales of MS Forza is lower than what GT done on a single entry but you want sony to correct the franchise by copying  this. Not much we can discuss.

last GT did 5 million and lost about 60% of the sales of its predecessor.  So two Forzas lol.   

And GTsport is going to do more or less that.  Another failure as far as past GT sales are concerned.  I never said copy yearly releases, but maybe take control of the franchise because it's a string of failures and ineptitude and broken promises.