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Forums - Politics Discussion - Donald Trump: How Do You Feel about Him Now? (Poll)

 

Last November,

I supported him and I still do - Americas 91 15.77%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Americas 16 2.77%
 
I supported him and I still do - Europe 37 6.41%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Europe 7 1.21%
 
I supported him and I still do - Asia 6 1.04%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Asia 1 0.17%
 
I supported him and I still do - RoW 15 2.60%
 
I supported him and I now don't - RoW 2 0.35%
 
I didn't support him and still don't. 373 64.64%
 
I didn't support him and now do. 29 5.03%
 
Total:577
Final-Fan said:
Superman4 said:

Yes, the title is misleading. My point was that what Trump is being called racist for is exactly what Clinton said in his speech and received a standing ovation. Not a bunch of liberal idiots on "news" outlets calling him racist.

Your point is wrong.  For one thing, Trump wants a literal wall.  You keep claiming the Clintons have advocated in the past for the same thing that Trump is advocating now, but every time you try to produce evidence you utterly fail to substantiate your claim. 

So a wall that stops illegal crossings is racist but increased border patrol agents to stop illegal immigrants from crossing is not? Its the exact same thing trying to be accomplished but in different ways.



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SpokenTruth said:
the-pi-guy said:

Do you understand why Trump is being called racist? 

It's not because liberals think the wall is racist.  It's not because being against illegal immigrants is racist.  

It's because Trump equated "illegal immigrants", and by that I mean every one of them, as being rapists, murderers, etc.  

It's more like this:

"We need to do something about the media not calling white shooters, 'terrorists'. "  vs:

"All white people are terrorists and we need to do something about them."

 

The former suggests there are some people are bad people.  The latter makes the claim that all white people are bad people.  The latter is racist because it is qualifies people based on their race instead of qualifying them on their actions. 

I think Trump supporters don't like him being called racists because by extension we would be calling them racists because they hold the same belief as Trump.  So it becomes not a matter of where Trump is racist or not but whether they can be honest with themselves that they are also racist.

Trump supporters are not racist. I have arguably become racist because I faced racism most of my life for being a conservative minority. You need to learn what racism is and is not. It’s not racist to see 98% of Africans vote democrat and assume that they are voting based on their race. Most of the democrats that boycotted Trump’s speech were black. That makes them anti-white and racist. Try again. 

Even though I am brown, I will side with these so called “white supremacists” because the one’s I have talked to are not racist in any way that leads to an oppression of people or mocking dehumanization. That is what is true racism. Enforcing borders saves lives and it’s not evil to deport people who overpopulate our country off the books with fake wealth. I mow my own lawn so maybe you can’t relate to a hard day’s work. Microagressions for misunderstanding is not real racism. Also, you can be racist towards whites which is what is happening. Even though I’m hapa or something I want to know where this white privelege myth comes from. My grandfather was wealthy as a government computer programmer and engineer. My fully white grandfather was orphaned because his father got TB and mother had no eduction, fought in WWII and permanently injured his back, and loved me (his mixed grandchild) to death. He was an anti-communist Republican who’s entire family tree for three generations lived in the city of Philadelphia. 

The only thing that has ever made me “racist” is the fact that many minorities refuse to assimilate to American culture. Theodore Roosevelt said America has only place for one language: English. Lincoln and Thomas Jefferson toyed with the idea of deporting all Africans, and actually hold more racist views than almost any of our presidents in history. Woodrow Wilson was racist and also enforced extreeme censorship. FDR (the socialist) was a known racist and oppressed Japanese. We are taught that Japanese and German Americans at the time of WWII were basiacly subhuman. How is that not real oppression of people? LBJ was a known racist and is responsible for a lot of liberal policies that have led to minorities being enslaved to the democratic party. The Clinton foundation faced accusations of extreme abuse and scandal in their efforts in Haiti. 

The statue of liberty was placed directly next to the offices of legal immigration where one fills out paperwork. More importantly the statue was not a rule of law or symbol for amnesty. Our immigration laws throughout our nation could be considered Eurocentric with white/European only rules and a merit based system. All my ancestors came here with jobs already lined up for them and a legal process. This was also before America was populated at the level it is today. 

White Americans do face racism. There’s also the redneck myth. The idea that southern whites are not intelligent. One may point to a very poor state like Mississipi where objectively whites make less money and the state education is poor. However, Mississipi whites are actually above the national average by education testing standards. What does that mean? We know mississipi is one of the worst in education. Does that make me racist for pointing out that Mississipi is only poor on education standards because of their minority population? No, that’s just data. I’m not interpreting anything. It’s up to the left to prove white opression of minorities there, but we see that democrats run their cities and populations and they get the federal dollars. So really it’s not racism by opression or dehumanization. No one thinks of mississipi and thinks of minorities causing the state to need increased federal funding. All that blame is placed on the “redneck” This is just one example of many.

Trump isn’t trying to screw over legal hispanics or blacks. Trump isn’t trying to create monopolies that outsource jobs to Mexico or China. Trump is only saying America first and his immigration compromise includes legalizing more hispanics than Obama was ever willing to do. The fact is that the vast majority of Republicans agree with Trump so no they are not racist.

I am more on the extreme right, but is that because of racism? No, it’s because I have read into detailed demographic analysis and voting patterns. If we give amnesty to people who will vote against our principles anyway what is the point? Republicans are typically not racist to be so niave. I am actually the only person who is in my family not Republican anyway because I am not a civic nationalist. I am independent and cannot even vote in primaries in my state. I urge Republicans to wake up and stop being afraid of being called racist because you will always be racist to these people even if you have friends who are a minority or are mixed raced yourself. You will always be an uncle tom to them because they are the real racists. The left engage in identity politics with everything and it’s time the right does, too. Of course if I see minorities start voting more divided instead of uniform democrat and big government then I could change my position, but there’s no evidence that will ever happen. 

Last edited by teamsilent13 - on 31 January 2018

I support President Donald Trump 100%.



SpokenTruth said:
the-pi-guy said:

Do you understand why Trump is being called racist? 

It's not because liberals think the wall is racist.  It's not because being against illegal immigrants is racist.  

It's because Trump equated "illegal immigrants", and by that I mean every one of them, as being rapists, murderers, etc.  

It's more like this:

"We need to do something about the media not calling white shooters, 'terrorists'. "  vs:

"All white people are terrorists and we need to do something about them."

 

The former suggests there are some people are bad people.  The latter makes the claim that all white people are bad people.  The latter is racist because it is qualifies people based on their race instead of qualifying them on their actions. 

I think Trump supporters don't like him being called racists because by extension we would be calling them racists because they hold the same belief as Trump.  So it becomes not a matter of where Trump is racist or not but whether they can be honest with themselves that they are also racist.

It's comments like this that will win Trump a second term if he wins. People do not like being called names. The more you demonize someone, the more they will fight back against you.

Heck, just look at how much people owned the term deplorables during the election.

During Trumps campaigns he said many times that he loves the uneducated. He didn't say this meaning he loves dumb people, or that he is calling those there dumb. He said this because the media was all calling those at his rallies or supporters dumb. He was accepting any and everyone. He was fighting the media with those comments. There was survey after survey coming out from the media constantly showing how stupid/uneducated/no college/ect Trump supporters were. The media constantly tried to make this a connection that if you vote for Trump that means you are stupid. By him sayig he loves 'dumb people' he was telling his supporters that he doesn't care what the media calls them or labels them, he is fighting for them. Here are the democrats and media all calling many Americans stupid and Trump saying "I support you"

Who do you think they are going to support/vote for? And how here you and many are still doing. Constantly calling anyone who even listens to Trump as a racist, bigot, moron, ect. All your doing is making people want to dig in their heels even more.



SpokenTruth said:
teamsilent13 said:

Trump supporters are not racist. I have arguably become racist because I faced racism most of my life for being a conservative minority. You need to learn what racism is and is not. It’s not racist to see 98% of Africans vote democrat and assume that they are voting based on their race. Most of the democrats that boycotted Trump’s speech were black. That makes them anti-white and racist. Try again.

If you're going to try to educate me, at least learn your own terms better.  You are confusing prejudice with racism....and added some allusions to "reverse racism" for good measure.  Get those squared, and we can talk.  Everybody faces discrimination by others in some form or another.  Short, fat, color, hair color, skinny, pale, etc...but those are individualized.  Racism is a systemic issue. It's institutionalized prejudice with power and influence.  Black democrats boycotting Trumps SotU address isn't anti-white or racist.  It's a protest on the grounds that they do not expect Trump to address their concerns....and for the most part he didn't.

By definition, this is not true. Racism explicitly does not require systemic or institutionalized expression. Anyone can be racist, regardless of identity or social standing.

This redefining of terms is not beneficial to the discourse, because it needlessly narrows the lens and simultaneously creates exclusions. The people that keep pushing the new "racism" are doing more harm than good, and I see them often descend into tribalist enclaves that subsist on self-supporting echoes.

Black people in America can be and are racist. All of them? Of course not. Many? I don't know. Can you blame them? Absolutely not. White people have given them centuries of reasons to hate them; the institutionalized racism in the US reinforces those reasons, every single day. The system, in and of itself, is racist against minorities. 

To that end, protesting a racist system or symbol thereof does not make one a racist. It makes them, quite literally, anti-racist. "Reverse racism" is a term that was coined to make people feel better about being racist, because it's not an actual thing. Racism is racism.



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Superman4 said:
Final-Fan said:

Your point is wrong.  For one thing, Trump wants a literal wall.  You keep claiming the Clintons have advocated in the past for the same thing that Trump is advocating now, but every time you try to produce evidence you utterly fail to substantiate your claim. 

So a wall that stops illegal crossings is racist but increased border patrol agents to stop illegal immigrants from crossing is not? Its the exact same thing trying to be accomplished but in different ways.

So, let me see if I now correctly understand you:  of the three qualities "motive", "proposed means", and "stated objective", you are claiming to have established that one out of three are the same:  stated objective.  [edit:  By objective, I mean what they want the proposed means to directly accomplish, e.g. stop border crossings, not indirectly, e.g. save American jobs for Americans—that is closer to motive.]

I would dispute that their stated objectives are entirely the same, but I would agree that there is a large amount of overlap.  However, there is plenty of room for one person to be racist and the other(s) not racist even if the objective was identical. 

P.S.  I also believe that immigration via illegal border crossings was a much bigger problem when Clinton gave that speech.  Isn't it now mostly overstaying visas?  And wasn't it estimated that net illegal immigration by Mexicans was negative recently? 



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the-pi-guy said:

I think the strangest thing about the racism stuff is how a large number of conservatives got offended because people were calling out literal nazis, carrying literal nazi flags.  

irstupid said:

It's comments like this that will win Trump a second term if he wins. People do not like being called names. The more you demonize someone, the more they will fight back against you.

That explains why the hispanic population doesn't tend to vote for Trump.

Trump is unlikely to win a second term, he's very unpopular.  

Actually, Latinos voted for Trump in record numbers compared to other Republicans of late.  Turns out many don't like illegals either.

Also, continue calling anyone who is not a democrat a racist homophobe deplorable.  It worked out well for you the last time you spread stupid lies.

 

Where you getting your 'unpopular' numbers?  The same polls that were smashed last election night?

 

Trump 2020!



Smashing down barriers, building a strong America fuelled by the hard work of all people regardless of their religion, ethnicity and gender. Immigrants should be allowed to come to America without judgment to help build the national economy. It is racism and the fear of the unknown that leads to vile leaders like Trump to be elected as President. Say no to racism and welcome the immigrants!



Seventizz said:
the-pi-guy said:

I think the strangest thing about the racism stuff is how a large number of conservatives got offended because people were calling out literal nazis, carrying literal nazi flags.  

That explains why the hispanic population doesn't tend to vote for Trump.

Trump is unlikely to win a second term, he's very unpopular.  

Actually, Latinos voted for Trump in record numbers compared to other Republicans of late.  Turns out many don't like illegals either.

Also, continue calling anyone who is not a democrat a racist homophobe deplorable.  It worked out well for you the last time you spread stupid lies.

Where you getting your 'unpopular' numbers?  The same polls that were smashed last election night?

Trump 2020!

I did a very brief on your latino voter claim, and what I found was that either he did about the same as previous Republicans (perhaps slightly better), or he did worse (continuing a downward trend for Republicans).  I'm not saying my 30 seconds of Google searching is infallible, but can you come up with your evidence for your claim [edit: that Trump performed remarkably well among Latino voters]? 

Last edited by Final-Fan - on 01 February 2018

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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Final-Fan said:
Superman4 said:

So a wall that stops illegal crossings is racist but increased border patrol agents to stop illegal immigrants from crossing is not? Its the exact same thing trying to be accomplished but in different ways.

So, let me see if I now correctly understand you:  of the three qualities "motive", "proposed means", and "stated objective", you are claiming to have established that one out of three are the same:  stated objective.  [edit:  By objective, I mean what they want the proposed means to directly accomplish, e.g. stop border crossings, not indirectly, e.g. save American jobs for Americans—that is closer to motive.]

I would dispute that their stated objectives are entirely the same, but I would agree that there is a large amount of overlap.  However, there is plenty of room for one person to be racist and the other(s) not racist even if the objective was identical. 

P.S.  I also believe that immigration via illegal border crossings was a much bigger problem when Clinton gave that speech.  Isn't it now mostly overstaying visas?  And wasn't it estimated that net illegal immigration by Mexicans was negative recently? 

Yes, border crossings have dropped dramatically since Trump came into office and took a tougher stance on immigration. That still doesn't mean a wall will not help. What the wall does is narrow down the area in which crossings happen. The larger and longer the wall the more we can focus on areas without said wall. It also gives us the ability to put up more surveillance on our side without it being disrupted.