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Forums - Nintendo - Switch Is Succeeding Without Blue Ocean Casuals, Nintendo Should Not Forget This.

DonFerrari said:
SpokenTruth said:

I'm amazed that you don't know what a game having legs means.  Legs are about consistently selling long after launch. 

But when it's relevant, you can't just ignore it either.

Fatslob claims that for a game to qualify as having legs, it must remain in the top 20 every chart regardless of the consistency of long term sales. To manage this, it must sell at a rate that is irrespective of the 1st week sales but is instead measured against other titles.  Legs are a measure against itself.

For example: with specific regards to install base, to breach the top 20 a game must sell ~50,000 units globally each week.  For Switch, that is a game that must have a sales ratio of 1:140 against a PS4 game of 1:1300 and XOne of 1:640.  Combined they are 1:1940. This shows it is more difficult for a Switch title to maintain a position in the top 20 than for any old or new title to appear in the top 20 (again, old or new title, that doesn't matter). 

And that doesn't even take into consideration the install base of the game itself.  LoZ:BotW has already sold 4.7 million units.  That means new sales have a 2.3 million Switch pool to purchase from (plus whatever new console sales are for the week).  Now that ratio dropped to 1:46.

Install base matters when maintaining a presence in the top 20 and these numbers prove it.  And again, maintaining a top 20 presence isn't even the qualification for having legs.  That's just an arbitrary goal post Fatslob put up.

 

And by the way, that's using VGC and global figures.  If I used NPD, I'd have to account for the fact they combine SKUs across platforms, do not track Switch digital sales, and they rank according to revenue (not units sold).

See my previous reply... for the legs of the current games launching, saying PS4/X1 have much more userbase is irrelevant. But also there is little value to say the Switch games weren't on TOP 20, the month may have had a lot of solid releases. The legs of those games (which I agree will probably be very good).

On LoZ:BotW is one of the few situations were we surely would need to consider the lack of available userbase to sell through because the attach rate is immense. But legwise it's possible it won't have much unless it breaks by a lot all of Zelda previous installments for total sale, because it is already quite high.

Anyway, from what we know from at least Wii and WiiU, Nintendo flagships have legs (although the guy didn't say the games of Switch won't have legs, just that it will be smaller than Wii) but we really can't be sure how much better or worse its leg will be compared to the flagships in Wii.

Yes but he moved the goalposts. Originally he was comparing like to like, then he began yammering on about MP8 and NSMBW, which have nothing comparable on Switch atm. It seems to be a particular favourite of his, either moving the goalposts, or cherry picking the exact piece of tiny data to back up his claim, however irrelevant it is.



DON'T WIN ME CHIBI BUDDY DON'T WIN ME.

ANIMAL CROSSING NEW LEAF FRIEND CODE:- 5129 1175 1029. MESSAGE ME.
ANDY MURRAY:- GRAND SLAM WINNER!

In my opinion the N64 was not just the best console of the 5th gen but, to this day the best console ever created!

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peachbuggy said:
DonFerrari said:

See my previous reply... for the legs of the current games launching, saying PS4/X1 have much more userbase is irrelevant. But also there is little value to say the Switch games weren't on TOP 20, the month may have had a lot of solid releases. The legs of those games (which I agree will probably be very good).

On LoZ:BotW is one of the few situations were we surely would need to consider the lack of available userbase to sell through because the attach rate is immense. But legwise it's possible it won't have much unless it breaks by a lot all of Zelda previous installments for total sale, because it is already quite high.

Anyway, from what we know from at least Wii and WiiU, Nintendo flagships have legs (although the guy didn't say the games of Switch won't have legs, just that it will be smaller than Wii) but we really can't be sure how much better or worse its leg will be compared to the flagships in Wii.

Yes but he moved the goalposts. Originally he was comparing like to like, then he began yammering on about MP8 and NSMBW, which have nothing comparable on Switch atm. It seems to be a particular favourite of his, either moving the goalposts, or cherry picking the exact piece of tiny data to back up his claim, however irrelevant it is.

Well, comparison can be complicated... but yep, writing off the legs of a game because it released couple months ago and isn't charting on October-Dec rank doesn't make much sense...

Still I agree that will be hard for Switch games to achieve the legs of Wii games (some charting high after a year of release) and also selling on the levels of MK on Wii, that was monster level.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
peachbuggy said:

Yes but he moved the goalposts. Originally he was comparing like to like, then he began yammering on about MP8 and NSMBW, which have nothing comparable on Switch atm. It seems to be a particular favourite of his, either moving the goalposts, or cherry picking the exact piece of tiny data to back up his claim, however irrelevant it is.

Well, comparison can be complicated... but yep, writing off the legs of a game because it released couple months ago and isn't charting on October-Dec rank doesn't make much sense...

Still I agree that will be hard for Switch games to achieve the legs of Wii games (some charting high after a year of release) and also selling on the levels of MK on Wii, that was monster level.

Well, (his examples) MKWii. I don't think MK8D will ever match up to that. Zelda, a bad example on his part, as BOTW likely to smash Twilight Princess on Wii and Splatoon, which, apart from doing really well, it has nothing to compare to on Wii. What was really strange tho was saying they had to stack up selling 70% of LTD in 18 months or something. Very specific and obviously tailored to his narrative. Cherry picking at its finest.



DON'T WIN ME CHIBI BUDDY DON'T WIN ME.

ANIMAL CROSSING NEW LEAF FRIEND CODE:- 5129 1175 1029. MESSAGE ME.
ANDY MURRAY:- GRAND SLAM WINNER!

In my opinion the N64 was not just the best console of the 5th gen but, to this day the best console ever created!

peachbuggy said:
DonFerrari said:

Well, comparison can be complicated... but yep, writing off the legs of a game because it released couple months ago and isn't charting on October-Dec rank doesn't make much sense...

Still I agree that will be hard for Switch games to achieve the legs of Wii games (some charting high after a year of release) and also selling on the levels of MK on Wii, that was monster level.

Well, (his examples) MKWii. I don't think MK8D will ever match up to that. Zelda, a bad example on his part, as BOTW likely to smash Twilight Princess on Wii and Splatoon, which, apart from doing really well, it has nothing to compare to on Wii. What was really strange tho was saying they had to stack up selling 70% of LTD in 18 months or something. Very specific and obviously tailored to his narrative. Cherry picking at its finest.

I think he were more likely showing that the game hitting 70% of LT sales on its first 18 months wouldn't have big legs... from what I remember most games would hit that 70% in 12 months or less.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
peachbuggy said:

Well, (his examples) MKWii. I don't think MK8D will ever match up to that. Zelda, a bad example on his part, as BOTW likely to smash Twilight Princess on Wii and Splatoon, which, apart from doing really well, it has nothing to compare to on Wii. What was really strange tho was saying they had to stack up selling 70% of LTD in 18 months or something. Very specific and obviously tailored to his narrative. Cherry picking at its finest.

I think he were more likely showing that the game hitting 70% of LT sales on its first 18 months wouldn't have big legs... from what I remember most games would hit that 70% in 12 months or less.

So, really, it's far too early for him to start using such a formula yet then.



DON'T WIN ME CHIBI BUDDY DON'T WIN ME.

ANIMAL CROSSING NEW LEAF FRIEND CODE:- 5129 1175 1029. MESSAGE ME.
ANDY MURRAY:- GRAND SLAM WINNER!

In my opinion the N64 was not just the best console of the 5th gen but, to this day the best console ever created!

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peachbuggy said:
DonFerrari said:

I think he were more likely showing that the game hitting 70% of LT sales on its first 18 months wouldn't have big legs... from what I remember most games would hit that 70% in 12 months or less.

So, really, it's far too early for him to start using such a formula yet then.

Would have to agree.

And leg or not, over 5M sales is quite good for almost any game.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
peachbuggy said:

So, really, it's far too early for him to start using such a formula yet then.

Would have to agree.

And leg or not, over 5M sales is quite good for almost any game.

Agreed. I think that most of Nintendo's games released this year will eventually reach that milestone. If there is a MK9 it may have a chance to match MKWii IF the Switch gets a big enough userbase.



DON'T WIN ME CHIBI BUDDY DON'T WIN ME.

ANIMAL CROSSING NEW LEAF FRIEND CODE:- 5129 1175 1029. MESSAGE ME.
ANDY MURRAY:- GRAND SLAM WINNER!

In my opinion the N64 was not just the best console of the 5th gen but, to this day the best console ever created!

This week’s Switch eShop US charts are as follows:

Software

1. Super Mario Odyssey
2. Rocket League
3. Stardew Valley
4. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
5. Doom
6. Sonic Forces
7. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
8. Overcooked: Special Edition
9. Zelda: Breath of the Wild
10. Sonic Mania



 

NNID : ShenlongDK
PSN : DarkLong213
shenlong213 said:
This week’s Switch eShop US charts are as follows:

Software

1. Super Mario Odyssey
2. Rocket League
3. Stardew Valley
4. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
5. Doom
6. Sonic Forces
7. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
8. Overcooked: Special Edition
9. Zelda: Breath of the Wild
10. Sonic Mania

Has Stardew been in the top 5 since launch? Sure seems like it.

Seems like a pretty good start for the Bethesda duo, hopefully they stay in the charts for the remainder of the holidays.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

shenlong213 said:
This week’s Switch eShop US charts are as follows:

Software

1. Super Mario Odyssey
2. Rocket League
3. Stardew Valley
4. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
5. Doom
6. Sonic Forces
7. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
8. Overcooked: Special Edition
9. Zelda: Breath of the Wild
10. Sonic Mania

I'm surprised Overcooked Special Edition has remained in the top 10 despite the constant releases among the indies, third-parties, and Nintendo games. It will be interesting to see how this top ten at the eshop will shake up once the holidays really hit its stride.

Anyway, the top ten does show a decent lineup of core Nintendo, core third party, retro, and indies. I guess Sonic Forces being in the top ten is nice, though its kinda bittersweet considering how mediocre the game became (from what I've seen and read).