As if the PS4 best sellers list isn't chock full of dudebreh MP shooters like Call of Duty, Uncharted, Battlefield, Battlefront, GTA, etc. What you're trying to say is US gamers are attracted to those types of games and the PS4 is this gens US dudebreh console of choice, where the 360 was last gen.

What new AAA western IP didn't sell on Xbox? Sunset? Maybe that has less to do with the userbase and more to do with the game.

Lol I never knew an Indiana Jones style story struck you as being dude bro like. Sunset overdrive would’ve sold well on the PlayStation. Sony just wanted the ip. So are you saying that it’s because of the quality of games like sunset overdrive, ryse and quantum break why they didn’t sell? No. Even Phil Spencer admitted himself... single player experiences seem to sell better with Sony and Nintendo’s core fanbases. If they want those gamers, they need to draw them back to the Xbox brand the same way the Xbox drew them from the ps2 to the 360. Good for Phil now working on those new ips. For all those gamers who complained and Phil heard, I salute them. Good luck to Phil taking those gamers because that’s the only way their market share will expand.

You said dudebro MP shooters, that’s exactly what Uncharted MP is. Have you ever played it and actually talked to other people playing it?

Papa Phil said Sony has studios that are good at making single player games but said the fanbase for them is shrinking and they’re risky. Maybe you have a link to what you’re referencing? Sounds like an interesting read.

And yes, I’d say those games didn’t sell because of their quality. I loved Ryse but it was universally disliked. QB had tons of hype but didn’t live up to it and has next to no replay value. Sunset is a good game but very stylish and certainly not everyone’s cup of tea. The movement and humor in the game turned a lot of people I know away. And yeah, all of these games would have sold better on PS4. It has more units to sell to.

Uncharted as dude-bru? Nate is an anti-hero. A fumbler in his world. That is like the complete opposite of a dude-bru game where the main character is about kicking arse and whooping about who they've killed. I can almost guarantee you have NEVER played Uncharted after that comment. Next you'll be saying Last Of Us is a dude-sis game. Smh.

If you are speaking specifically about MP, what MP isn't a dude-bru fest?? So the comparison to my original statement about Scalebound, where NO multi-player was shown, is irrelevant!

Yeah, when I say dude bro multiplayer, I mean like COD and Gears. Uncharted isn't a dude bro game and neither is Last of Us. Those games are well thought out with an almost (if not) Hollywood level of writing.

Phil Spencer said the fanbase for single player games is shrinking? LOL hardly. He's most likely speaking in general because he highlighted that Sony and Nintendo have succeeded in that region where they have failed. Microsoft seems to be following the EA template of making multiplayer games and games as a service.  Have you seen how much these single player games have made this year? Uncharted alone is a sign of the great possible sales one can achieve if made well.

Nintendo and Sonys core market isn't shrinking for single player games. They are stable. Micrososfts single player game sales last gen were clearly dependent on the gamers who jumped ship from the PS2 to the 360. That was the point I was trying to make to you earlier. Zelda is already past 4 million in sales and Horizon is almost if not already at 4 million. 

Too few and not enough quality exclusives.

Uncharted MP is very dudebro. They even have the loot boxes and cosmetics and microtransactions now. Again, have you played it? Listened to the people who play it? Very dudebro. What does writing have to do with it? You originally said Xbox gamers are more drawn to "dudebro games with multiplayer". So what does SP writing have to do with multiplayer? You're shifting the goal posts. Either way it's irrelevant because like I said, the PS4 best sellers list is chock full of dudebro shooters.

Still waiting on your link to this Spencer discussion, interested in reading it. And yeah, you can point to big name franchises and mega hyped titles all day, it doesn't mean anything. So Zelda has hit 4 million.. what does this mean about most other SP titles?

Yes, I said Xbox gamers are attracted more to dude bro multiplayer games than single player story driven titles. Even at the very core, single player AAA experiences are not being supported. Xbox wouldn't have half the problems it is today if gamers were not supporting games like Ryse, Quantum Break and Sunset Overdrive. Microsoft is saying the same things as EA because they are revealing the same data EA seems to be gathering from their console as a whole. I am not shifting any goal posts. I was expressing the disappointment that that the install base does not support single player AAA experiences as well as they should. Also, if Sony has a high selling platform, don't you think the dude bros are going to have to the popular platform? I was just saying that the Xbox is the type of brand that likes to make games people who love EA annualized titles would like to get. Gears and Halo are right up the dude bros alley. Last of Us has awesome manhunt style multiplayer, but do you think a dude bro is going to choose that over COD? LOL no. The dude bros are on it primarily for COD, Battlefield, Fifa, Madden, etc. I am happy that Spencer realizes that if he wants single player games to sell hes going to try to make a huge blockbuster next gen that will draw single player gamers over to the Xbox. Perhaps a huge, elaborate and critically acclaimed WRPG and another multiplayer Shooter. Those games will sell well on the Xbox. One thing that I will give core Xbox gamers is that they will buy a good WRPG. Microsofts WRPG DNA is lined with WRPG's from PC. That's probably why they a game similar to Horizon. Spencer has said himself hes wanted games like Uncharted, and after failures he saw fit to get the timed exclusivity of Tomb Raider to have a game to face off against Uncharted 4. 

Again....better luck next gen.

I've actually linked you to the Spencer discussion in the past where he spoke of Sony and Nintendos fanbase ability

And I said so are Playstation gamers. Sales charts proves me right. I mean, what you're describing is a large chunk of both fanbases. That's like saying Californians are more attracted to blockbuster super hero titles than westerns. I mean, duh, but who cares? The same thing applies to every other state. You're using it negatively to paint an entire fanbase. First, it's not a negative. If you want your risky single player titles, you need the more casual games to sell. Sony said recently only 4 out of 10 of their titles make money. I would imagine that's the case for Microsoft as well. It's no different than movies. And there's plenty of good SP content that exists on Xbox thanks to the sales of these more casual/monetized games.

Second, your argument falls flat because like I said, the same thing applies to the Playstation fanbase. Sure, you have pockets of people who love games like Gravity Rush or Infamous but the majority of the people buying games are buying the massively casual titles like CoD, Madden, Battlefield, Battlefront, FIFA, etc. lol, you do understand this is reality, yes?

So gamers need to support flawed titles just because? Why should gamers have supported Ryse? Again, I love the title, but I can see why a majority hated it. Why should people support games just because they are single player titles? If they're not good, they don't deserve support. If they appeal to a limited amount of people, they don't deserve support. Quantum Break needed tighter controls, among other things. Sunset turned people away with its humor and gameplay. Not every SP game is going to sell as much as Uncharted or Zelda, lol.

Idk, if EA is saying something about the state of gaming then I'd pay more attention to that than anything you're saying. No offense intended, but I'm sure they have data that is more reliable than what you come up with. Idk about EA though, I'm only commented on the person you mentioned, Phil Spencer.

EA titles like Battlefront, FIFA, Madden, Battlefield, among many other titles that sell much better on PS4? lol.

Again, why would you be disappointed that a lackluster or flawed SP game does not get supported well? Personally I don't have a problem with meh games netting meh sales. I have more of a problem when a mega hyped turd like The Order outsells more deserving SP titles :)

And what a dumb ass excuse for the sales of these "dudebro" games on PS4. "oh well its a high selling platform". What do you think got these types of gamers onto the 360 platform last gen? Sales. Being the popular platform. Now that is the PS4. Your excuses are only making my case for me.

lol, why do you keep bringing up Last of Us? I didn't say anything about LoU MP being "dudebro". I said Uncharted, because it is. LoU actually appeals to people who used to love SOCOM. They're surprisingly similar. Also, if you don't consider games like Uncharted to be dudebro because they have well written SP sides, then you can remove Halo and Gears from your list of dudebro games.

A huge critically acclaimed WRPG would sell great on either console. See: Witcher 3. A complete dudebreh shootfest would sell great on either platform. See: Calls of Duty 2017. A yearly iteration of a sports franchise will sell great on either platform. See: FIFA. Niche, less appealing SP titles sell less on both platforms.

Also, what do you mean by a game "similar to Horizon"? Have you played Horizon? There already exists lots of games like Horizon, they're called Ubisoft open world titles.

Jeez, how many threads are you going to insert that Spencer comment into? I literally think I've seen you use it 50 times already. Spencer said he wants a successful franchise like Uncharted, not literally an Uncharted clone type game. I mean, what exactly is surprising or wrong about that? Game execs want franchises that sell. Who cares.

So you got nothing, ok. If you ever find it, link it. I'd love to read :)

Not gonna get involved with the argument here, but I feel like Horizon must be well past 4mill by now, no? 2.6mill inside 2 weeks, and 3.4mill at the end of April (<2mo). Between a couple sales, the price drop, and being a high seller on Black Friday, I feel like it’s probably closer to 4.5-5mill. I think the GOTY edition came out today, so maybe more sales before end of year.