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Forums - General Discussion - A $1,000 per month cash handout would grow the U.S economy by $2.5 trillion, new study says

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vivster said:
Aeolus451 said:

It's an idiotic idea. It's not the government's job to do this sort of thing and they don't have the money to just give people money. 

Actually it is the government's job to provide people with the necessary tools to live a decent life. In fact, that's their only job. The financial side of things is a bit more complex but that's a puzzle that will have to be solved in the near future.

I disagree with this. The government is not some giant tit that gives succor to people. It's supposed to provide security/protection, rule of law and sustain a stable enviroment for us so we can provide for ourselves. We pay taxes in exchange for that stuff. Giving away free money expecting everything to turn out all rosy falls more in line with socialism or communism.



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vivster said:

Actually it is the government's job to provide people with the necessary tools to live a decent life. In fact, that's their only job. The financial side of things is a bit more complex but that's a puzzle that will have to be solved in the near future.

It's also the government's job to protect the currency they created so their citizens don't go around carrying poop ... 

If goverment's should provide their citizens a decent life then those 'necessary tools' should be 'investments' like education, other low cost subsidies, subsidies that can profit, not 'entitlements' like healthcare or social security ... (It might finally make sense to subsidize public transportation since we won't have to pay the any drivers in the future.) 



Aeolus451 said:
vivster said:

Actually it is the government's job to provide people with the necessary tools to live a decent life. In fact, that's their only job. The financial side of things is a bit more complex but that's a puzzle that will have to be solved in the near future.

I disagree with this. The government is not some giant tit that gives succor to people. It's supposed to provide security/protection, rule of law and sustain a stable enviroment for us so we can provide for ourselves. We pay taxes in exchange for that stuff. Giving away free money expecting everything to turn out all rosy falls more in line with socialism or communism.

If "sustaining a stable environment to provide for ourselves" means handing out free money in the future so be it. A meritocracy is nice but that's not the real world. The government is already handing out free money, just in different forms. This one is just a bit more direct than others. I'm not saying the plan is perfect but it is one of the models we will have to have a close look at in the future.

Just like democracy isn't perfect but we have to make due because there isn't a better way for now.

fatslob-:O said:
vivster said:

Actually it is the government's job to provide people with the necessary tools to live a decent life. In fact, that's their only job. The financial side of things is a bit more complex but that's a puzzle that will have to be solved in the near future.

It's also the government's job to protect the currency they created so their citizens don't go around carrying poop ... 

If goverment's should provide their citizens a decent life then those 'necessary tools' should be 'investments' like education, other low cost subsidies, subsidies that can profit, not 'entitlements' like healthcare or social security ... (It might finally make sense to subsidize public transportation since we won't have to pay the any drivers in the future.) 

It's a financial puzzle as I said. The government is already handing out free stuff. This more direct approach could solve some issues and should be looked at. Society is changing and the current models are not able to sustain a growing and more and more technologized society.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

vivster said:

It's a financial puzzle as I said. The government is already handing out free stuff. This more direct approach could solve some issues and should be looked at. Society is changing and the current models are not able to sustain a growing and more and more technologized society.

Which means our next goal should be tuition free university for certain studies or specialization ... (Shouldn't be targetting universal healthcare as a right.)



vivster said:
Aeolus451 said:

I disagree with this. The government is not some giant tit that gives succor to people. It's supposed to provide security/protection, rule of law and sustain a stable enviroment for us so we can provide for ourselves. We pay taxes in exchange for that stuff. Giving away free money expecting everything to turn out all rosy falls more in line with socialism or communism.

If "sustaining a stable environment to provide for ourselves" means handing out free money in the future so be it. A meritocracy is nice but that's not the real world. The government is already handing out free money, just in different forms. This one is just a bit more direct than others. I'm not saying the plan is perfect but it is one of the models we will have to have a close look at in the future.

Just like democracy isn't perfect but we have to make due because there isn't a better way for now.

 

Handing out free money is not practical because it has to come from somewhere. Where's the money gonna come from? Gonna just print money or take it from other people? It's idiotic. Can people not do math or something...



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fatslob-:O said:
vivster said:

It's a financial puzzle as I said. The government is already handing out free stuff. This more direct approach could solve some issues and should be looked at. Society is changing and the current models are not able to sustain a growing and more and more technologized society.

Which means our next goal should be tuition free university for certain studies or specialization ... 

That is a given anyway but doesn't have anything to do with a basic income.

The problem is higher education isn't for everyone. And not only that, being highly educated in a specialized field does not guarantee you a job in that field. Some fields are much needed but less desirable so even with free education students will choose the fields they want and not necessarily the fields that are needed. Free education is great but it does not solve all real world human problems.

Right now we still have about the same amount of jobs as we have people but that will change in the future. So even if everyone had a university degree, not everyone would have work.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Aeolus451 said:
vivster said:

If "sustaining a stable environment to provide for ourselves" means handing out free money in the future so be it. A meritocracy is nice but that's not the real world. The government is already handing out free money, just in different forms. This one is just a bit more direct than others. I'm not saying the plan is perfect but it is one of the models we will have to have a close look at in the future.

Just like democracy isn't perfect but we have to make due because there isn't a better way for now.

 

Handing out free money is not practical because it has to come from somewhere. Where's the money gonna come from? Gonna just print money or take it from other people? It's idiotic. Can people not do math or something...

You take it from the people who have too much of it. Exactly as it is done now and has always been done. You're right that money doesn't come from nowhere but you should agree that there exists enough money for everyone to have a decent life. Now we just need to redistribute properly.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Inflation? Sure your budget is 2.5 trillion more, but the dollar is worth 20% less so you most likely lost money. (Just pulling numbers out my ass here, but so are this study apprently).



 

 



That's sounds like a really really stupid idea. Not to mention the inflation it would cause rendering your twelve thousand dollars per year to become from a big sum of cash to barely enough to pay for food gas and electricity. If you want money work and study hard for it. Besides isn't the USA in a major ocean of debt already. 



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar