That you see nothing wrong with white supremacists/kkk/nazis surrounding school kids with torches is disturbing. And I wonder who started it. The ones holding the torches, or the school kids standing by the statue.
And I haven't heard that they shouted anything illegal. They had a permit to hold that protest in front of that statue of some Civil War era political figure.
I didn't say they shouted anything illegal.
You said:"But there's no excuse for driving a car into what witnesses described as a group of peaceful protesters." I agree, there aren't and I didn't excuse this subhuman's behaviour in any way.
When you mention the murder and murder attempts in the same context as the the other fights the way you did, it undermines the severity of the murder, as it sound like both sides were equaly deplorable on that particular day, so its a wash. It's fine to condemn the other violence as well, just distinguish it from the murder because that's on a different level. This is what Trump didn't do until 3 days later, which made decent people upset (both left and right), and white supremacists/kkk/nazis happy. (See image below)
You claim that Richard Spencer "says Sieg Heil". I have never heard him do that. Aren't you just making it up now? Source please.
He said "Hail victory" which literally means "Seig Heil" in German.
No, I do not know what sort of songs Jimmie sang in 2009. If it was by Ultima Thule then I don't have a problem with it.
I didn't see Ultima Thule on the list. And from what I understand Ultima Thule stopped conveying white supremacist messages in their songs many years ago. It wasn't just Jimmie but also the chairman of the Youth SVD as well. It was a number of songs from different bands. Some were tame. A few others were not. Such as a Nazi fight song.
I don't care who founded Sverigedemokraterna because they've been radically reformed since the beginning. I've supported them in elections since 2002.
When we're talking about a party that supported racial genocide, you probably should care about why they didn't start a new party, rather than keeping the same one. And there's only one reason for that. Because they also want support from racists, nazis, etc, on top of support from people who are not racist, or those who are not aware of the origin of the party.
I never said neither Heil Trump or Heil Hitler on these forums, I said "Heil, mein Führer" as a joke.
Fair enough. But that might not be an appropriate joke when you say you sympathise with some people in the alt-right. Because neo nazis feel empowered and supported by Trump.
Okay, some confusion about parties there, but okay. So we both have a problem with right groups like nazis and the KKK promoting violence and also when some extreme leftists like Antifa promote violence. Very good.
I really hope you do and that you're not just saying that. But iirc, you voiced your support of the masked mobs in Stockholm who beat up homeless illegal immigrants around the train station. I understand that some of them may have "deserved it" as they may have enacted violence towards others in the past, but when mobs attack people at random like that it will inevitably hurt the innocent as well.
About "Hail victory", it's not regarded as the same thing as "Sieg Heil", but a few guys in the crowd reacted to Richard Spencer saying it by making the Roman salute at one infamous meating. To me it wasn't the end of the world. But media made a laughably big deal out of it.
So those five to seven people who "reciprocated with a nazi salute" are not decent human beings. Big deal. I don't judge a whole movement based on a silly act commited by less than ten fringe individuals.
Oh please. There's no reason you would pick the exact literal translation of "Sieg Heil" unless that's what you're referencing. Especially in the exact same context as it was famously used by the original Nazis. He's hailing victory, and their leader (Trump). Just like the Germans did. In 1940's Germany it would be "Heil Hitler" and "Sieg Heil". That is absolutely not a coincidence. Any decent human being would make a conscious effort to not use the exact literal translation of the same hails the german Nazis did to their leader. Richard Spencer knows exactly what he was doing. And so do you.
The people doing nazi salutes are not the only deplorable people in the room. So is he for clearly innciting it, and then not telling any of them to stop.
So much to cover here, and the format is tricky.
About the torch march, I think the torch guys had a permit to have a ceremony at the statue, but once they reach there, there are counter-protestors surrounding the statue. So to me it's more disturbing with the protestors who are blocking a legal demonstration.
You said that I make it sound like "both sides were equally deplorable on that particular day". Yes, that is my picture of the events that happened. Apart from that disgusting car murderer. With him in the picture, the far right side was more deplorable. But I see him as an individual with his own responsibility too, and I don't agree that he was incited by the right wing leaders. But, if we were to see a trand of this happening more often, terror attacks or murders in connection with far right activities, then it's more natural to make the case that it's caused by the rethorics of the far right. But this isn't the case as of now. The far right doesn't commit many murders or terrorist attacks compared with their opponents from the left and in islam.
About Richard Spencer and his "hail victory". I spot the parallell to national socialism in Germany and "Sieg heil", I do. And yet it's not done with the same mindset.
In short, just like modern day socialists can hold a Soviet flag or wear a Che Guevara shirt, it doesn't mean that they stand behind all the atrocities Lenin, Stalin or Che Geuvara made. By the same logic, far right groups don't stand behind the Holocaust and other atrocities Adolf Hitler made.
The problem is that in modern society, everyone is accusing people on the right for any thing that even remotely reminds of the Nazi era, but they're mostly fine when the left does it. This is a huge problem to me. This is why I don't get upset by the right wingers, because they're so ostracized and marginalized by the mainstream, while the extreme leftists are backed up by the establishment. The sick narrative of "good" violence versus "bad" violence, and the logic of "the end justifys the means".
I was happy about the right wingers who attacked migrants in Stockholm, because we on the right need people on the streets too. I just can't get upset about a few hundred far right guys who riot on the streets once every few years, when they're opposed by thousands of socialists, and thousands and thousands of migrant thugs who riot almost daily and who invaded my fatherland, the latter two being groups who both get support from the government, the media and from people like you.
The West is under threat, and white nations are under threat. We are ending up in fucking minority in our own lands!! I simply do not want white culture to disappear. I love my culture because it's the best for our people. If you call that "white cupremacist", then fine, go ahead, but in my eyes you are a huge hypocrite and traitor because you deny white people self-determination while caring for the self-determination of foreigners, and allowing our culture to be destroyed by mass immigration of foreign cultures who will dominate us in the future.
I'm sorry but enough is enough.
You're just a sad human being. If you want to induldge in this kind of hate, by all means go ahead, and see where it takes you in life, but I'll spare you the popcorn and 2 hours and tell you how this movie ends -- with the bus going off a cliff.
This mindset will never, ever lead you anywhere good.
I find that hard to believe, especially when the video shows proof of Trump contradicting himself over what he did last weekend.
And that alone makes what he said profound? All he did was nitpick at a speech. Was it technically a contradiction? Yes but I don't think it had much baring at what Trump said at all.
I mean this guy is condeming Trump for not saying something in a particular way he liked, meanwhile he's using his platform to make an issue of terrorism about Trump and not the racists he's so vehemently against. He is literally using a terror attack to make a stretch for a joke to run a shitty comedy show, instead of commenting on the issue in an interesting or inspirational way. I think that making everything about Trump tells us just as much about the host as it does Trump's incompetency.
About the torch march, I think the torch guys had a permit to have a ceremony at the statue, but once they reach there, there are counter-protestors surrounding the statue. So to me it's more disturbing with the protestors who are blocking a legal demonstration.
You said that I make it sound like "both sides were equally deplorable on that particular day". Yes, that is my picture of the events that happened. Apart from that disgusting car murderer. With him in the picture, the far right side was more deplorable. But I see him as an individual with his own responsibility too, and I don't agree that he was incited by the right wing leaders. But, if we were to see a trand of this happening more often, terror attacks or murders in connection with far right activities, then it's more natural to make the case that it's caused by the rethorics of the far right. But this isn't the case as of now. The far right doesn't commit many murders or terrorist attacks compared with their opponents from the left and in islam.
About Richard Spencer and his "hail victory". I spot the parallell to national socialism in Germany and "Sieg heil", I do. And yet it's not done with the same mindset.
In short, just like modern day socialists can hold a Soviet flag or wear a Che Guevara shirt, it doesn't mean that they stand behind all the atrocities Lenin, Stalin or Che Geuvara made. By the same logic, far right groups don't stand behind the Holocaust and other atrocities Adolf Hitler made.
The problem is that in modern society, everyone is accusing people on the right for any thing that even remotely reminds of the Nazi era, but they're mostly fine when the left does it. This is a huge problem to me. This is why I don't get upset by the right wingers, because they're so ostracized and marginalized by the mainstream, while the extreme leftists are backed up by the establishment. The sick narrative of "good" violence versus "bad" violence, and the logic of "the end justifys the means".
I was happy about the right wingers who attacked migrants in Stockholm, because we on the right need people on the streets too. I just can't get upset about a few hundred far right guys who riot on the streets once every few years, when they're opposed by thousands of socialists, and thousands and thousands of migrant thugs who riot almost daily and who invaded my fatherland, the latter two being groups who both get support from the government, the media and from people like you.
The West is under threat, and white nations are under threat. We are ending up in fucking minority in our own lands!! I simply do not want white culture to disappear. I love my culture because it's the best for our people. If you call that "white cupremacist", then fine, go ahead, but in my eyes you are a huge hypocrite and traitor because you deny white people self-determination while caring for the self-determination of foreigners, and allowing our culture to be destroyed by mass immigration of foreign cultures who will dominate us in the future.
I'm sorry but enough is enough.
You're just a sad human being. If you want to induldge in this kind of hate, by all means go ahead, and see where it takes you in life, but I'll spare you the popcorn and 2 hours and tell you how this movie ends -- with the bus going off a cliff.
This mindset will never, ever lead you anywhere good.
Yeah, of course Soundwave is coming to spin a careless comment.
You should give credit to me for my honesty if anything.
But to clarify, the right wingers didn't attack defenseless innocent migrants, they attacked migrant thugs and criminals who sell drugs and harrass pedestrians at the city centre of Stockholm. And the violence was relatively mild, throwing a punch or two at most.
Hate is probably a too strong of a word. Angry is more relevant. I feel very angry towards the masses of migrants who behave badly, and angry towards all the inhumane traitors who support them.
People need to wake up and see what is happening here. Trump immediately condemned the hatred and bigotry behind the death of this woman moments after the event happened. The media then attempted to accuse Trump of supporting this atrocity because he didn't use the specific words "white supremacy" in his condemnation of the event. Trump then clarified himself in a second press conference where specifically condemned "racism" (in case there was any doubt) and the media is still accusing him of somehow supporting it. The media are filthy liars for doing this, but I want people to see the bigger picture here:
Has anybody considered that Antifa, the white supremacists and the MSM may be controlled by the same puppet masters who are ultimately trying to start a race war in America? We have one group (Antifa) who proclaims hatred towards white people and who carry out violent acts against anybody who supports American patriotism (this group has deep ties with George Soros and mega foundation funding). We have a second group (white supremacists) who claim to represent those who support Trump and who just committed utter brutality towards 20+ innocent people essentially using Trump's name. Finally we have the MSM who, even after Trump clearly and absolutely denounces the hatred and bigotry espoused by the extreme right, continues to insist that he is somehow a supporter of white supremacists.
This is how you bring down nations: by playing two sides off of each other like this. I guarantee that there is big money behind this and American's have to be smart enough to see the forces in the shadows that are at work here. Just like Trump has said: we all bleed the same red blood regardless of our skin color and it is crucial that American's come together in the wake of this. The real enemy here is the mainstream media (CNN, MSNBC, Washington Post, etc...) who are literally trying to start a race war in the wake of this tragedy and who are controlled by some of the richest scum on the planet. You can make a difference here by doing the following:
1) Don't buy into stupid tribalism regardless of what side of the political spectrum you are on and keep trying to find good in the people whom you dislike. Just like on Star Trek, the only way we will ever be able to advance as a society is if we unite as one and allow our differences to become our strengths. Being a Trump supporter does not make you a criminal, nor does being a Hillary supporter and the vast majority of both of these groups are neither communists nor white supremacists. No matter how hard, we have to keep trying to find common ground with each other, allowing ourselves to be split up into warring groups only sends us back into a dark age which will end up benefiting only a very small group of elites at the top.
2) Stop listening to any media that is controlled by a corporation and resolve to only listen to independent media and bloggers whose funding is made very clear. The MSM is fanning the flames of race war and you cannot trust anything that they say at this point. The MSM is very dangerous right now and they are largely controlled by foreign multinational elites who want to rule over people, not lead them. I promise you, regardless of your political views the MSM is not on your side.
lol you're wasting your time, they'll just call you a conspiracy theorist
i found it especially weird that CNN has been running this non-stop for the past couple days but i've never once seen them comment on the violence and destruction perpetuated by antifa... anyone looking at this objectively should be able to see what's going on, but they push all of these narratives and people get influenced and blinded by them unfortunately
ATIFA never killed anyone on the other hand the KKK, the Nazi's, Neo Nazis and other right wing hate group have killed millions throughout history. Lychings of minorieties used to be a everyday occurance in the US less then 100 years ago and most of them where either directly done or involved the KKK.
That guy is incredibly unfunny, probably the worst part of Comedy central at this moment, and I don't think the video says anything particularly captivating or pronounced
As far as atheist comics go he is actually pretty funny. Of course he no George Carlin but noboy alive is even close to being as funny as Carlin.
lol you're wasting your time, they'll just call you a conspiracy theorist
i found it especially weird that CNN has been running this non-stop for the past couple days but i've never once seen them comment on the violence and destruction perpetuated by antifa... anyone looking at this objectively should be able to see what's going on, but they push all of these narratives and people get influenced and blinded by them unfortunately
ATIFA never killed anyone on the other hand the KKK, the Nazi's, Neo Nazis and other right wing hate group have killed millions throughout history. Lychings of minorieties used to be a everyday occurance in the US less then 100 years ago and most of them where either directly done or involved the KKK.
Yeah, Antifa never killed anyone. Communists in the 20th century only executed 80 million people "for the greater good".
You're just a sad human being. If you want to induldge in this kind of hate, by all means go ahead, and see where it takes you in life, but I'll spare you the popcorn and 2 hours and tell you how this movie ends -- with the bus going off a cliff.
This mindset will never, ever lead you anywhere good.
Yeah, of course Soundwave is coming to spin a careless comment.
You should give credit to me for my honesty if anything.
But to clarify, the right wingers didn't attack defenseless innocent migrants, they attacked migrant thugs and criminals who sell drugs and harrass pedestrians at the city centre of Stockholm. And the violence was relatively mild, throwing a punch or two at most.
Hate is probably a too strong of a word. Angry is more relevant. I feel very angry towards the masses of migrants who behave badly, and angry towards all the inhumane traitors who support them.
Maybe you shouldn't be so "careless" about the shit you type?
Maybe you should expand your brain to try and look at people as individuals, but it doesn't seem likely in your case, you seem rather unable to process at that level. You're mad at people for existing and wanting a life style similar to your own and no one's stopping you from enjoying "European heritage" (whatever the fuck that is in 2017 with the internet, iPhone, video game consoles, mass transit, airplanes, microwaves McDonalds, brand clothing, living a life style that people 200 years ago of virtually any culture wouldn't recoginize to begin with).
ATIFA never killed anyone on the other hand the KKK, the Nazi's, Neo Nazis and other right wing hate group have killed millions throughout history. Lychings of minorieties used to be a everyday occurance in the US less then 100 years ago and most of them where either directly done or involved the KKK.
Yeah, Antifa never killed anyone. Communists in the 20th century only executed 80 million people "for the greater good".
Being anti facist doesn't mean you are a communinst there are plenty of people that are anti facist that aren't communist. Your comment is pointless not that I expected anything better anyway.
That guy is incredibly unfunny, probably the worst part of Comedy central at this moment, and I don't think the video says anything particularly captivating or pronounced
As far as atheist comics go he is actually pretty funny. Of course he no George Carlin but noboy alive is even close to being as funny as Carlin.
Literally every other political comedy show I've seen on Comedy Central is funnier, and way more endearing. I don't care about comedians that are specifically "atheist", as far as I can tell religion doesn't usually hold back great comedians. He's just incredibly unfunny, he's more of an annoyance than anything. And his lack of originality is just another strike against him. But that's just my opinion, and comedy is extremely subjective.
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Communists in the 20th century only executed 80 million people "for the greater good".
