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Forums - Politics - Trump Announces Ban on Transgender People in US Military

 

You support this?

No. 206 29.68%
 
Yes. 311 44.81%
 
^ What the hell is wrong ... 177 25.50%
 
Total:694
pokoko said:

Edit:  Damn right, Mr. McCain.

“The president’s tweet this morning regarding transgender Americans in the military is yet another example of why major policy announcements should not be made via Twitter,” said Mr. McCain, the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee.  https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/us/politics/trump-transgender-military.html

This!!!  Why the hell are we receiving this type of information from Trump twitter.  This is not some off the mark decision it's a major decision which will require the president to back up a lot of his claims and show justification.  Just throwing this out there on twitter is a garbage move.   Basically it appears he is looking for support without having to do any real justification because you can be sure this ban will be fought.  This should be a public announce statement where he can be questioned and provide support for his ban, now some one off tweet.

I personally can agree if transgender does have a significant impact on our military but its hard for me to ever take Trump at his word since he has the ability to make up his own facts and just straight up lie to support his position.  



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d21lewis said:
pokoko said:

I feel like I need a hell of a lot more than just some Tweets to explain this decision, though.  What kind of information did he get from his Generals that indicated this wasn't working?  

The one point I do agree with is that the government should not be paying for medical treatment related to gender transition.

I'm willing to consider this from a logical standpoint but that's going to require supporting information.  Trump is going to have to explain this with clear language, statistics, and facts.

Edit:  Damn right, Mr. McCain.

“The president’s tweet this morning regarding transgender Americans in the military is yet another example of why major policy announcements should not be made via Twitter,” said Mr. McCain, the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee.  https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/us/politics/trump-transgender-military.html

100% agree. He always does this shit and leaves it up to our imaginations to fill in the blanks. People say anything from "He's using this to distract us from ____" to " He's a genius fixing Obama's mess". For once, I'd love for him to go in depth and explain something! It's aggravating, really.

It feels like a sketch where Putin is laughing because the USA army has transgenders so Trump can't stand it and announce they are not allowed anymore.

Cost wise it is insane because the USA military spend +40 million $ on things like Viagra while the cost for transgenders is like 8 ish million?

I personally find it very sad, their are 18 countries in the world where it is possible to join the military as a transgender, and in all those countries including USA transgenders aswell got medals for amazing achievements.  I always thought it doesn't matter if you white/black/green/Male/Female/holebi/Transgender so long you met the Military standards you are welcome..






Sildenafil has many uses including pulmonary diseases and altitude sickness which may be the case for a much, much bigger ammount of military personnel than the few transgenders in there. It's stupid to say "hey it's five times more expensive" when the actual benefit is thousands (if not infinite) times bigger, it's actually straight up argumentative dishonesty.

There are many less impactant medical conditions that exclude people from military and it's a surprise to me the US actually one day did accept genderqueers in their army.



Hiku said:
Machiavellian said:

I personally can agree if transgender does have a significant impact on our military but its hard for me to ever take Trump at his word since he has the ability to make up his own facts and just straight up lie to support his position.  

If by impacty you mean the mentioned medical cost, it's 0.001% of the miliitary budget, or a fifth of what the military spends spends on viagra.
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8511729

This may be an attempt at a distraction from Trump apparently wanting to fire Jeff Sessions, so that he can appoint someone who can fire Robert Muller.

I totally agree that this seems out of no where and probably is something to drum up media attention while he quietly tries to pull off something else.  I really hope he is looking to fire Session.  This would be the first salvo to trying to fire Mueller which is when the pay  day comes when he does that.



TallSilhouette said:
I really don't see how anyone can defend this. Even if the extra medical costs were at all significant (they aren't), you're talking about categorically denying a class of citizen - who've done nothing wrong - their basic civil rights. If this were really about cost and combat effectiveness, you could simply not cover reassignment related expenses or exclude from combat roles, but that's not the case. This is blatant persecution, plain and simple. Trump sure is fighting for the LGBT community, alright. Just when you think this administration has hit a new low...

Serving in the military is not a person's right. The selection of troops needs to be pragmatic above politicians using it for identity politics. People are denied entry for physical health issues, mental health issues, lack of ability for what they need at the time and lack of intelligence. Trans people typically have alot of mental health issues (that alone is enough not to let them in) and trying to change alot of military policies so they can be included is not pragmatic at all. 



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Aeolus451 said:
TallSilhouette said:
I really don't see how anyone can defend this. Even if the extra medical costs were at all significant (they aren't), you're talking about categorically denying a class of citizen - who've done nothing wrong - their basic civil rights. If this were really about cost and combat effectiveness, you could simply not cover reassignment related expenses or exclude from combat roles, but that's not the case. This is blatant persecution, plain and simple. Trump sure is fighting for the LGBT community, alright. Just when you think this administration has hit a new low...

Serving in the military is not a person's right. The selection of troops needs to be pragmatic above politicians using it for identity politics. People are denied entry for physical health issues, mental health issues, lack of ability for what they need at the time and lack of intelligence. Trans people typically have alot of mental health issues (that alone is enough not to let them in) and trying to change alot of military policies so they can be included is not pragmatic at all. 

First, you are doing what a lot of people do with no proof.  You throw out there that transgender people have a lot of mental issues.  Can you provide anything that substantiate your claim.  Next if these same people have passed all of the military requirements and have served the military for countless years, received promotions etc, there needs to be clear evidence that their is a problem needing solved by a ban.  You talk about changing military policy as if transgender people started to apply for the miltary yesterday.  These people have been in the military for decades.



Hiku said:
Cloudman said:
I'm curious as to what this "tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail.” is about...

Anyways, I simply disagree with this.

It costs up to 8 million per year at most. A.k.a. 0.001% of the military budget.



In contrast, tax payers spend 60 million a year just to pay for Trump's visists to his private estates.



And the military spend 5 times that amout on Viagra.

It's just a nonsensical excuse to take away more civil rights.

All the more reason why this just sounds really dumb and ridiculous... >_>



 

              

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Machiavellian said:
Aeolus451 said:

Serving in the military is not a person's right. The selection of troops needs to be pragmatic above politicians using it for identity politics. People are denied entry for physical health issues, mental health issues, lack of ability for what they need at the time and lack of intelligence. Trans people typically have alot of mental health issues (that alone is enough not to let them in) and trying to change alot of military policies so they can be included is not pragmatic at all. 

First, you are doing what a lot of people do with no proof.  You throw out there that transgender people have a lot of mental issues.  Can you provide anything that substantiate your claim.  Next if these same people have passed all of the military requirements and have served the military for countless years, received promotions etc, there needs to be clear evidence that their is a problem needing solved by a ban.  You talk about changing military policy as if transgender people started to apply for the miltary yesterday.  These people have been in the military for decades.

Decades? You're talking out of your ass. In 2016, obama told the pentagon to lift the ban on trans being allowed into the military and they had until july 2017 to finish implementing the change. So yes it basically yesterday.

Don't say there's no proof of their mental health issues when they have a very high suicide rate and the root of their issues is gender dysphoria which is a mental disorder which in turn causes other mental issues. 



Hey, I'm back from the banned!
I've been told to refrain from blanket statements, but I'll try to post less frequently on this thread and to avoid swear words.

Let's be clear, there is absolutely no moral, economic or medical reason to support this decision.
I can say with the utmost confidence, as have many users before me, that if you support this, you are wrong.
I'm not going to parrot those points again, but you've been shown them, repeatedly, on this thread, as well as on the entire web.

What I am going to do is clarify and expand on my first post.
Now, in my first post I described Trump supporters as, well, particularly stupid.  You can check it, it's on the first page, but I'm trying to avoid swear words now.
I realize, that mine was indeed a blanket statement: Trump supporters aren't stupid.

Not exclusively: there are stupid people, sycophants, opportunists, grossly incompetent people, actual fascists, gullible people, genuinely evil people, ignoramuses, people who don't know any better (but at this point definitely should) and every combination of the above!
It's a veritable rainbow of worthless, shining after a rain of waste over a valley of garbage.

You might say I'm rude, but I'd say everything you have supported up until this point has lead to the death of civil discourse and you ought to own up to it.
Tomayto, tomahto. 



SpokenTruth said:
Aeolus451 said:

Decades? You're talking out of your ass. In 2016, obama told the pentagon to lift the ban on trans being allowed into the military and they had until july 2017 to finish implementing the change. So yes it basically yesterday.

Don't say there's no proof of their mental health issues when they have a very high suicide rate and the root of their issues is gender dysphoria which is a mental disorder which in turn causes other mental issues. 

Just admit you find them icky and be done with it.

Or you could listen to dozens of general and members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff that are appalled by this ban and will take absolutely no action on their honorable soldiers regardless of gender specificty just because Trump tweeted it.

Stop trying to imply that I'm a transphobe. I'm completely fine with trans people except for the really extreme types. You're just resorting to that crap because you're running out of logical points to counter me with.  I'm just not a progressive who wants so called progress just for the sake of it. I prefer to be pragmatic about stuff like this. On their mental problems alone, they shouldn't be allowed into the military.