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Forums - Politics - Trump Announces Ban on Transgender People in US Military

 

You support this?

No. 206 29.68%
 
Yes. 311 44.81%
 
^ What the hell is wrong ... 177 25.50%
 
Total:694

Well that's stupid. There are Majors, and Chiefs that are trans. How is he going to replace that type of experience?



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Bigotry! What will Trump the king of ignorance do next?



Illusion said:

The military is not the place for the weak and those that need special protection. A military is about strength and getting the strongest and most dangerous people out there behind machine guns to KILL the enemy. If you feel any compulsion to identify yourself as a person with special needs or accommodations then I am sorry but the military is not the place for you.  The military is the body that will fight to protect you from the radical extremists who would like to throw you off buildings, but they can't have you near the front lines to do that. I support President Trump's decision.

Honest questions:

1. Do you think physical strength is the most important quality for noncombative soldiers to perform their designated jobs effectively (IT, for example)? Do you think trans people born male are incapable of being as strong as straight males?

2. Do you think women have no place in the military in any capacity and are unfit for service even in the noncombative roles that make up the majority of the military? If they do have a place, why don't trans people?

3. Would hormones for those who want/need them be any significant burden on military healthcare compared to everything else the military already covers for its service men and women? If reassignment surgeries were not covered by military benefits and trans people used the same facilities as everyone else, what special needs would they have that the military is not already equipped to deal with?

4. If you met or exceeded all the same aptitude requirements as any other soldier, would being denied the ability to serve based on your sexual orientation be a violation of your civil rights?



Ka-pi96 said:
TallSilhouette said:
I really don't see how anyone can defend this. Even if the extra medical costs were at all significant (they aren't), you're talking about categorically denying a class of citizen - who've done nothing wrong - their basic civil rights. If this were really about cost and combat effectiveness, you could simply not cover reassignment related expenses or exclude from combat roles, but that's not the case. This is blatant persecution, plain and simple. Trump sure is fighting for the LGBT community, alright. Just when you think this administration has hit a new low...

Honestly I think that line of thinking is just wrong in all kinds of ways. Not all people are equal, some aren't as fit to do certain jobs as others and they absolutely do not have a right to do that job regardless.

Now if you want to take the "there wouldn't be much if any additional costs, disruption, or risks for either their mental and physical health and that of those serving with them" argument, then that's an entirely different thing and while I don't think there's enough proof one way or the other to make a fully accurate assessment that argument does at least have the potential to show why this is a bad decision.

The "denying a class of citizen their basic civil rights" argument however... well if you're going that route then shouldn't you also argue that autistic people, blind people, deaf people, other kinds of physically or mentally disabled people and even kids should be able to join the military too? People don't have a right to do it if they can't meet the standards required, not saying transgender people can or can't, but there is absolutely a basis for not allowing certain classes of citizens entry and depending on the circumstances there's not necessarily anything wrong with that.

I'll ask you the same question I just added above: If you met or exceeded all the same aptitude requirements as any other soldier, would being denied the ability to serve based on your sexual orientation be a violation of your civil rights? I'm not saying that every person is entitled to a military position regardless of qualifications, I'm saying that they should be just as valid as anyone else if they meet the same performance standards. To not even give them a chance to qualify and automatically deny an entire class of people based on their orientation is persecution.



I'm not your typical Trump hater. I've always felt that while he has his faults, the media has blown much of his words, actions, and policies way out of proportion in the name of sensationalism and because he works against their interests, and the masses eat it up. In fact I actually felt neutral, or even supported a few aspects of his; like his anti-politically correct nature, his being a political outsider, and opposition to free trade - but I condemn this action.

Quite a slap in the face to those who want to serve their own country. I cannot support this in any way, despite Trump's bs excuse of "additional medical costs" or whatever. So only trans people require significant additional medical costs? I don't buy it. Being barred from anything based on gender is a violation of human rights. Sure there's the debate of whether trans really exists as a biologically separate "gender" but that's a debate for another time. The fact is still that this is a blanketing form of discrimination of an entire group of people.



"We hold these truths to be self-evident - All men and women created by the, go-you know - you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

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Ka-pi96 said:
DarthMetalliCube said:

Quite a slap in the face to those who want to serve their own country. I cannot support this in any way, despite Trump's bs excuse of "additional medical costs" or whatever. So only trans people require significant additional medical costs? I don't buy it. Being barred from anything based on gender is a violation of human rights. Sure there's the debate of whether trans really exists as a biologically separate "gender" but that's a debate for another time. The fact is still that this is a blanketing form of discrimination of an entire group of people.

So you don't think there's any times that discrimination based on gender is ok? Really?

I think in some cases, such as for acting roles or in sports, it's perfectly fine. You don't?

Well perhaps I'm speaking too broadly here.. I mean if we're talking in those terms you've outlined I don't really consider that true discrimination, at least not in any significant context.. It's for the sake of art/entertainment for one thing. Secondly, it's simply bringing on specific types to fullfill a role based on who fits the description to best fill it.. Men will typically be inherently be better/more appropriate for certain roles and women will typically be inherently better/more appropriate for certain roles. Obviously I don't think it would be a good idea if a 30 year old hairy dude was cast to play the role of Annie, or if a tiny 20 year old girl was hired on as the quarterback of the Chicago Bears lol. 

But yes as a general rule, being libertarian in nature - I feel strongly that people should be granted positions/roles and be treated/judged 100% based on character and actions, not features they are born with and cannot control like gender or race. 

I'm speaking more in terms of human rights people having equal access to everything.



"We hold these truths to be self-evident - All men and women created by the, go-you know - you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

Ka-pi96 said:
DarthMetalliCube said:

Well perhaps I'm speaking too broadly here.. I mean if we're talking in those terms you've outlined I don't really consider that true discrimination, at least not in any significant context.. It's for the sake of art/entertainment for one thing. Secondly, it's simply bringing on specific types to fullfill a role based on who fits the description to best fill it.. Obviously I don't think it would work out too well if a 30 year old hairy dude was cast to play the role of Annie, or if a tiny 20 year old girl was hired on as the quarterback of the Chicago Bears lol. 

But yes as a general rule, being libertarian in nature - I feel strongly that people should be granted positions/roles and be treated/judged 100% based on character and actions, not features they are born with and cannot control like gender or race. 

I'm speaking more in terms of human rights people having equal access to everything.

That would be interesting, to say the least

I do agree though that people should be based on character and actions rather than gender or race. But at the same time there are occasions when gender/race should be considered, and as long as there's a justifiable reason for that I think that's ok.

As for your last sentence, in principle I do agree. The issue I have with that is many leftist people seek to force through equal outcomes in life (ironically by using racism and sexism), while I think people should only have a right to equal opportunities.

Oh absolutely - and this is where I differ from the left despite having many liberal views. This constant push to try and get more women into STEM for instance, as they are highly underepresented there, to me is foolish and short-sighted, since it doesn't take into account that most women seem to PREFER other fields than STEM. Same reason you won't find many male nurses. This is still a form of discrimination, just flipped around. Leftists will try and make excuses like "well these women are raised and TRAINED to think this way by teh patriarchy!!1" The irony is they don't see how condescending that is to these women as it's a subtle way of telling them "you are too weak/simple minded to think for yourselves so we must think for you or save you!"

So while I'm against gender discrimination, I'm also against an artificial push to make every area "equal" in terms of male/female. In essence - their shouldn't be FORCED equality, though there also shouldn't be forced inequality. These things should play out naturally.



"We hold these truths to be self-evident - All men and women created by the, go-you know - you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

Trump. The comedic joke that keeps on giving.

What someone does/does not have dangling between their legs is ultimately none of our business or concern.

Remember, Transgender people are people, so treat them with the utmost respect like any other human being. - If you are unable to do that, then you bloody well weren't raised right.





www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

This is starting to set a dangerous precedent.



Just when I thought we were past the civil rights travesties. This shit is going to start gaining momentum. All the more dangerous when he gets backed into a corner on his legal issues. I can see him throwing more radical right tantrums to energize his voter base.