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Forums - Politics - Ford Cancels Plans To Move US Factory To Mexico Due To Trump ... (Hint: China)

WolfpackN64 said:
Aeolus451 said:

Did you not read what I wrote or were you unable to understand it? 

"If you want them to bring their jobs back, incentivize it by reducing their costs of operating there however you can til you tilt the balance. That doesn't mean decrease their taxes but increase the cost of worker benefits or up minium wage to where it negates the reduced taxes."

I'm defending what is right. Picking a side based on feelings or who is percieved as more of a victim is idiotic. Companies are owned by people too and they are entitled to what they earn with their company. If workers want jobs then the cost of their job to their employer can't negate the money the company would make with having that person as a employee. A company can't help it if a government keeps increasing it's costs to the point that the company can no longer operate within the borders of that country or area. It has no obligation to provide jobs or anything to anyone. It has no contract with the people because it was not elected by anyone to serve the people.  Companies are not branches of the government. It's up to the government to create and sustain an stable environment so that businesses can operate, provide services and make money in exchange for those services. People are employed in this way.  

In regards to subsidies. It depends entirely on what was agreed upon between the government and company. It's extremely situational and I disagree with the idea that a government should use force to make a company to do anything. You know what happens when a country tries to strongarm or force a company to do anything, it pulls out. Just look at what's happening in Venezuela. 

Oh please, costs for companies have been going down worldwide since the 1980's. Campanies are playing nations against each other to get the best bargain price on their taxes. I've been hammering the point for COMPANIES WHO MAKE PROFIT. Companies that turn losses obviously need to cut somewhere. Indeed the goverment must regulate, but the competition between the countries must stop. This downward spiral is ruining public finances and you have come up with NO solutions except to carry on towards economic ruin. Of course the government shouldn't strongarm companies when it's not necessary, but companies are always in a lower position then the state. If a few companies need to be disowed because they broke their contracts, so be it.

Ford once recieved several million euros in Belgium for them to upgrade their factory. That was a made deal. One year later, Ford packed it's coffers and left abroad. In this case, the state has every right to seize assets since Ford basically stole public money while under contract.

And please, Venezuela is a poor example. Venezuela has a structural economic trade problem, not a problem caused by unionism.

Provide a decent solution, then I'd listen.

That's false. If that was case then they would be making even more money since the keep charging more for the same services. Costs keep rising due to a multitude of things like unions, employee benefits, prices of materials, new taxes/fees, inflation,  etc. It's a fact.  For example, those $15/hr minium wage knuckleheads don't realize they'll lose a lot of jobs if that's implemented because it would increase the cost for businesses by a considerable amount. Mcdonalds would just become automated and everyone would suffer in some sense because of that. I can't imagine what their sandwhiches would taste like if that happened. haha. People need to learn how to be more pragmatic. 

Competition between countries for business. That's never gonna stop and it's a good thing in general. 

I already gave a solution. Just reduce costs for businesses to operate and have employees. It will solve itself. 



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Aeolus451 said:
WolfpackN64 said:

Oh please, costs for companies have been going down worldwide since the 1980's. Campanies are playing nations against each other to get the best bargain price on their taxes. I've been hammering the point for COMPANIES WHO MAKE PROFIT. Companies that turn losses obviously need to cut somewhere. Indeed the goverment must regulate, but the competition between the countries must stop. This downward spiral is ruining public finances and you have come up with NO solutions except to carry on towards economic ruin. Of course the government shouldn't strongarm companies when it's not necessary, but companies are always in a lower position then the state. If a few companies need to be disowed because they broke their contracts, so be it.

Ford once recieved several million euros in Belgium for them to upgrade their factory. That was a made deal. One year later, Ford packed it's coffers and left abroad. In this case, the state has every right to seize assets since Ford basically stole public money while under contract.

And please, Venezuela is a poor example. Venezuela has a structural economic trade problem, not a problem caused by unionism.

Provide a decent solution, then I'd listen.

That's false. If that was case then they would be making even more money since the keep charging more for the same services. Costs keep rising due to a multitude of things like unions, employee benefits, prices of materials, new taxes/fees, inflation,  etc. It's a fact.  For example, those $15/hr minium wage knuckleheads don't realize they'll lose a lot of jobs if that's implemented because it would increase the cost for businesses by a considerable amount. Mcdonalds would just become automated and everyone would suffer in some sense because of that. I can't imagine what their sandwhiches would taste like if that happened. haha. People need to learn how to be more pragmatic. 

Competition between countries for business. That's never gonna stop and it's a good thing in general. 

I already gave a solution. Just reduce costs for businesses to operate and have employees. It will solve itself. 

And I already explained to you in detail why that doesn't work.

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/retail/latest-study-seattles-wage-law-lifted-restaurant-pay-without-shrinking-jobs/

And maybe you should research things properly before spouting neoliberal nonsense.



m0ney said:
These are my fav discussions on vgchartz although I'm not knowledgeable enough to participate.

That has literally never stopped anyone from ever taking part in any discussions on VGchartz or anywhere on the internet.

The fact that you even stop to think about are you or aren't you means you are better than most people :D



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive

WolfpackN64 said:
Aeolus451 said:

That's false. If that was case then they would be making even more money since the keep charging more for the same services. Costs keep rising due to a multitude of things like unions, employee benefits, prices of materials, new taxes/fees, inflation,  etc. It's a fact.  For example, those $15/hr minium wage knuckleheads don't realize they'll lose a lot of jobs if that's implemented because it would increase the cost for businesses by a considerable amount. Mcdonalds would just become automated and everyone would suffer in some sense because of that. I can't imagine what their sandwhiches would taste like if that happened. haha. People need to learn how to be more pragmatic. 

Competition between countries for business. That's never gonna stop and it's a good thing in general. 

I already gave a solution. Just reduce costs for businesses to operate and have employees. It will solve itself. 

And I already explained to you in detail why that doesn't work.

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/retail/latest-study-seattles-wage-law-lifted-restaurant-pay-without-shrinking-jobs/

And maybe you should research things properly before spouting neoliberal nonsense.

Using fast food as an example compared to manufacturing isn't really a good comparison.

People gotta eat. People don't have to drive over priced cars when they can get a cheap chinese made one.

Here in Aus manfuacturing got so expesive that local cars were costing 2to3x more than imports. Their sales declined year on year.  40K+ vs 20K is a big difference and a money saver. Even with subadies from the government they charged so much.

I do agree with you how Ford and GM even tak local money waste it (probably hide it offshore and not spend it locallt) then vanish a few years later should be held accoutable.  



 

 

I was about to say trump +1 but this is an even worse outcome for them.

Big win for China though which will fast become the new Land of opportunity.

Soon we will all want to live the Chinese dream.



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Guys, I'm just so sick of winning it don't make no sense!



Cobretti2 said:
WolfpackN64 said:

And I already explained to you in detail why that doesn't work.

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/retail/latest-study-seattles-wage-law-lifted-restaurant-pay-without-shrinking-jobs/

And maybe you should research things properly before spouting neoliberal nonsense.

Using fast food as an example compared to manufacturing isn't really a good comparison.

People gotta eat. People don't have to drive over priced cars when they can get a cheap chinese made one.

Here in Aus manfuacturing got so expesive that local cars were costing 2to3x more than imports. Their sales declined year on year.  40K+ vs 20K is a big difference and a money saver. Even with subadies from the government they charged so much.

I do agree with you how Ford and GM even tak local money waste it (probably hide it offshore and not spend it locallt) then vanish a few years later should be held accoutable.  

If there really is an unfair advantage because overseas manufacturing is way cheaper, you can always raise the import tax to somewhat protect the local industries.



WolfpackN64 said:
And this is why states should be able to seize assets of profit-turning companies who decide to relocate overseas. The extra profit through wages in China is going to be small, but every bit of margin for stock holders is welcome it seems. These companies have no morals.

States and or governments should not be able to "seize" anything. Companies are around to make money, if it’s cheaper to go to China or Mexico than it is well within their right to do so. It is the failed policies of the administration which allows it to be cheaper to import goods. Any and all imports should be taxed according to current US wages to now include medical costs since the Democrats want "free healthcare" to be mandatory for everyone. So essentially take the cost of a vehicle made in the US based on labor and materials per car/good and apply a tax accordingly per item imported based on that amount regardless of where it comes from. For companies with no US presence take the average of all imports from domestically owned companies and apply that tax to any 3rd party imports. 

 

Bottom line is the government needs to fix the laws in order to make it profitable to operate in the US. Mandating healthcare and other social programs will only force more companies to move overseas or across a border to another country that is cheaper. The last thing I want or anyone needs is the government being able to seize assets because they don’t like what you are doing. It’s bad enough police seem to think its ok to seize assets of people committing a crime and re-use those seized items for personal gain.



WolfpackN64 said:
Cobretti2 said:

Using fast food as an example compared to manufacturing isn't really a good comparison.

People gotta eat. People don't have to drive over priced cars when they can get a cheap chinese made one.

Here in Aus manfuacturing got so expesive that local cars were costing 2to3x more than imports. Their sales declined year on year.  40K+ vs 20K is a big difference and a money saver. Even with subadies from the government they charged so much.

I do agree with you how Ford and GM even tak local money waste it (probably hide it offshore and not spend it locallt) then vanish a few years later should be held accoutable.  

If there really is an unfair advantage because overseas manufacturing is way cheaper, you can always raise the import tax to somewhat protect the local industries.

Well they aleady do have like a 30% import tax on cars. If you push any more then all cars would cost 40-60k. Not many people will buy a car for that price.

Now that Ford and GM will be gone soon, those taxes will drop and cars will be even more cheaper.



 

 

JRPGfan said:
Teeqoz said:
Lol, pretty soon, manufacturing jobs won't exist in any country (except for some very few). And I for one welcome our new robot overlords.

What do you think is more likely...

A) future where wealth is redistributed, so that these machines that do the work, means everyone on the planet gets all they need.

B) future where a few companys own all the wealth, machines do all work, but they have almost no one to sell their stuff too. Money losses value, and we revert back to trade X for Y ect (where only companys can really trade one another). The humans that arnt part of that elite group, will have to learn to live off of the land/sea.

B

The people in the rich elite will also own the government and military so the poor will have nothing and no way to fight back. California is on the fast track to this scenario banning damn near all weapons and taking away everyone’s right to do almost anything. It is getting the point of reality already, politicians control how much we have to pay, how much they get paid, what laws to pass and not pass etc. We are losing more and more control every day.