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Forums - Politics - Trump Paris Meta-Decision

 

Should Trump stay or not?

Yes, stay 119 50.42%
 
No, don't stay 102 43.22%
 
Not sure 15 6.36%
 
Total:236
Superman4 on 01 June 2017
IsawYoshi said:
Superman4 said:
I think what everyone is missing here is the fact that aside from saving the US 100 Billion a year, leaving the agreement changes nothing. This agreement didn't force anyone to do anything to change, it was essentially a "here is what we should do" for the countries involved. It doesn't mean that we wont still use clean power in the US or move away from clean energy in general. It also doesn't affect the other countries in the treaty aside form our money will no longer be involved, something they shouldn't miss since they don't know exactly where it was going in the first place.

You could say that about every single international agreement ever. It's not like a country is going to be arrested or something. But when you are part of an agreement the other parts expect you to fullfill it, at that DOES actually mean that this changes everything. Not only that, but by showing that the US is commiting to the treaty they can leverage that in talks with other countries and say "hey, we're doing something for the entire world, why don't you up your efforts." Now instead we're going to have the single most powerful country in the world on the outside, together with such world powers as syria and nicaragua. I suppose they had poor coal plant workers to take care of and europe was trying to steal their money as well.

 

What's the point about leaving if you're supposed to cut the emissions anyway? Why not stay in? Why in gods name piss of every other state and nation in the world if your going to do what you agreed to anyway?

You leave it to stop paying other countries who are doing nothing 100 Billion a year. You seem to think that companies will stop installing solar panels, consumers in general will decide that they don’t want a hybrid or electric car, solar panels for their house etc. It doesn’t work that way. The cost of installing Solar or wind is minuscule in comparison to the overall savings. Companies and people in general understand this. Gas mileage is something that is dependent on price, nothing more. If gas prices were .20 a gallon nobody would care about an electric car or how many miles per gallon it consumed. People will continue to buy LED lights etc. because they save them money, the environment is not in jeopardy because we decided to stop wasting money on other countries when we can’t even figure out how to take care of our own.



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konnichiwa on 01 June 2017
glimmer_of_hope said:
Le meh! Just another reason for the "Never Trump" movement to bitch.

The Paris Agreement is a disaster just like the Kyoto Protocol was....(and look how that turned out). If this agreement is such a big deal then it will continue without America right?....right? Of course not, because this agreement yet again asks America to pay more than it fair share while China, the biggest polluter in the world does nothing!

First of all that shouldn't be a surprise considering having the biggest population so it would be interesting to see how it goes if you look per person.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/270508/co2-emissions-per-capita-by-country/



But while China undoubtedly still has work to do, the world's second largest economy has made huge strides in improving its air quality. Last year, in the quarter ending 30 September, China was the largest centre of investment in the world for renewable energy, with $26.7 billion - twice that of the second largest, the United States. In 2014, it led the world in new clean energy, adding 56 gigawatts to the grid, four times what the US contributed.

A new study by Greenpeace shows that these investments are starting to make a difference. Using NASA satellite images to measure microscopic particles, the study found that levels of PM2.5 particles in China had decreased by 17% between 2010 and 2015. In the United States the fall was 15%. 






WolfpackN64 on 01 June 2017
Aeolus451 said:
WolfpackN64 said:

Not investing in new technologies IS going to cost a lot of American jobs in the long run.

Nice strawman. You can still invest in new technologies while saving the jobs and money from a shit deal.

What is the shit deal? You want to create jobs that will help people transition. Coal has no future. If there will be no renewable jobs when the coal indistry finally collapses. Then you have a real problem. I'm guessing you don't even know what's in the Paris accords.



WolfpackN64 on 01 June 2017
Peh said:
A christian's mentality destroying our world. Why I am not surprised?

This has nothing to do with Christianity.



Soundwave on 01 June 2017
Aeolus451 said:
Soundwave said:

If it exists then something needs to be done, I'm sorry but "Joe Average Dumbfuck" in Kansas go find another job other than fucking coal if there is even a fair chance the planet's health is at risk. It's not fair to the rest of the people on the planet that their planet is put at risk because "Muricans need der jobs so they can afford extraneous crap at Wal-Mart for their obese children to fill the void of their unhappy lives". 

Until we have a "back up" planet that we can move to, we should probably errr on the side of caution with the one we have, if you only had one pair of underwear for the rest of your life, it's probably in your best interest to not shit your pants. 

No, we don't need to throw them under the bus. The US is not the world government and the US has already been doing it's part. The other layabouts can do their part without getting money from the US. 

The US and China have a responsibility to take a leadership position on this. They DON'T have the right to polute the only planet we have right now without any consequence, it is grossly irresponsible and unfair to the rest of the planet that may well have to deal with the consequences of their inaction. 



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Aeolus451 on 01 June 2017
WolfpackN64 said:
Aeolus451 said:

Nice strawman. You can still invest in new technologies while saving the jobs and money from a shit deal.

What is the shit deal? You want to create jobs that will help people transition. Coal has no future. If there will be no renewable jobs when the coal indistry finally collapses. Then you have a real problem. I'm guessing you don't even know what's in the Paris accords.

It's a really shitty deal for the US. Coal at the moment is jobs for a good bit of people around the world. Why not make it a bit cleaner and keep using it til have we have a clean energy that can meet our energy needs? I also don't agree with giving other countries any foreign aid over this. The tradeoff at the moment is not worth it for the US to be in the paris accord. I'm all for renegotating it but it can't cause the US the harm it does. Other countries can pay the foreign aid while India and china reduce their emissions alot quicker.



Soundwave on 01 June 2017
Aeolus451 said:
WolfpackN64 said:

What is the shit deal? You want to create jobs that will help people transition. Coal has no future. If there will be no renewable jobs when the coal indistry finally collapses. Then you have a real problem. I'm guessing you don't even know what's in the Paris accords.

It's a really shitty deal for the US. Coal at the moment is jobs for a good bit of people around the world. Why not make it a bit cleaner and keep using it til have we have a clean energy that can meet our energy needs? I also don't agree with giving other countries any foreign aid over this. The tradeoff at the moment is not worth it for the US to be in the paris accord. I'm all for renegotating it but it can't cause the US the harm it does. Other countries can pay the foreign aid while India and china reduce their emissions alot quicker.

Coal employs less people than Arby's shitty restaurants

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/03/31/8-surprisingly-small-industries-that-employ-more-people-than-coal/?utm_term=.96bdec78d32f

Totally worth accelerating possible global warming for this tiny segment of the earth's population. Totally worth it. 



method114 on 01 June 2017
spurgeonryan said:
I love the environment.

But after his statement and me learning more about it I say screw the Paris agreement.

It did bring us a disadvantage. Find other ways. We should have steppe out. He is right for once.

I don't know anything about the paris agreement. What I do know is that by not agreeing to join it doesn't mean Trump doesn't care or is ignoring it. We as a country are perfecctly capable of making changes to help with climate change without having to join other countries in doing it.

As far as if it's real or not it's clearly real. The temp has fluctuated forever on this planet. At one point in time North America was covered in mile high sheets of ice all of it. We just figured out that the human race is like 12,000 years older than we originally had thought. We are learning so much it's weird to me the people who think we know everything now and we are super smart.

As for the people saying we shouldn't even risk it? Well it's easy to say that maybe where  you live. I live in Houston a large part of our economy depends on oil. When the oil industry is doing bad it effects a lot of other industries as well in and around Houston. When your seeing people lose their jobs, their homes and everything else it's not as easy to say F those people we need to prepare for a situation we know very little about.



method114 on 01 June 2017
Naum said:
So Russia is still in it... China is still in it...North F**king Korea is in it...but not you....I hope most US citizens are ashamed of this decision..

China being in it makes me question what affect this will even have. Have you been to China? It's polluted to hell. They have daily reports warning you about how bad the pollution is. I have a hard time believing that they are going to change this all of a sudden.



Soundwave on 01 June 2017
method114 said:
spurgeonryan said:
I love the environment.

But after his statement and me learning more about it I say screw the Paris agreement.

It did bring us a disadvantage. Find other ways. We should have steppe out. He is right for once.

I don't know anything about the paris agreement. What I do know is that by not agreeing to join it doesn't mean Trump doesn't care or is ignoring it. We as a country are perfecctly capable of making changes to help with climate change without having to join other countries in doing it.

As far as if it's real or not it's clearly real. The temp has fluctuated forever on this planet. At one point in time North America was covered in mile high sheets of ice all of it. We just figured out that the human race is like 12,000 years older than we originally had thought. We are learning so much it's weird to me the people who think we know everything now and we are super smart.

As for the people saying we shouldn't even risk it? Well it's easy to say that maybe where  you live. I live in Houston a large part of our economy depends on oil. When the oil industry is doing bad it effects a lot of other industries as well in and around Houston. When your seeing people lose their jobs, their homes and everything else it's not as easy to say F those people we need to prepare for a situation we know very little about.

Yes, F those people. Sorry but a tiny subset of the population of the world has no right to imperil the entire planet's future because they can't find work somewhere else or don't want to. 

That is not their right. They have had plenty of warning and lead time here to find numerous different industries to work in.