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Tegra X2 was not an option if they were aiming for a holiday 2016 launch, which is what I'm pretty sure Nintendo was trying for.

Iwata's death (possibly) and typical software delays at Nintendo caused a small delay into 2017, but that was never the intended launch date even if it worked out well for Nintendo.



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Soundwave said:
Tegra X2 was not an option if they were aiming for a holiday 2016 launch, which is what I'm pretty sure Nintendo was trying for.

Iwata's death (possibly) and typical software delays at Nintendo caused a small delay into 2017, but that was never the intended launch date even if it worked out well for Nintendo.

Software delays is a poor excuse. I feel like that's a strawmans argument now.
The Switch's OS and Software stack is far from fully fleshed out and mature anyway... And it's derived from Android, leveraging nVidia's Software stacks, so it's not like the effort was all on Nintendo at any rate.

Not to mention allot of the software, API's and drivers that work with Maxwell based tegra also... *drum roll* works on Pascal based Tegra. Funny that.
Thus it shouldn't have been a hindrance with the SoC choice.




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Pemalite said:
Soundwave said:
Tegra X2 was not an option if they were aiming for a holiday 2016 launch, which is what I'm pretty sure Nintendo was trying for.

Iwata's death (possibly) and typical software delays at Nintendo caused a small delay into 2017, but that was never the intended launch date even if it worked out well for Nintendo.

Software delays is a poor excuse. I feel like that's a strawmans argument now.
The Switch's OS and Software stack is far from fully fleshed out and mature anyway... And it's derived from Android, leveraging nVidia's Software stacks, so it's not like the effort was all on Nintendo at any rate.

Not to mention allot of the software, API's and drivers that work with Maxwell based tegra also... *drum roll* works on Pascal based Tegra. Funny that.
Thus it shouldn't have been a hindrance with the SoC choice.

Getting a 2015 SoC in a 2016 (intended) Nintendo system is about as good as you're gonna get, mate. 

Not sure what exactly you thought was going to happen, you were never getting a 2017 chip in a 2017 Nintendo system, you should know better than that if you know anything about the industry.

They'll probably use the X2 for the first round of Switch revisions in fiscal year 2018-19. 



Pemalite said:
Miyamotoo said:

Sharper, cleaner UI elements does not same effect on 6.2" screen compared to TV, and again Nintendo wouldn't that in any case, even eShop in docked mode is running at 720p.

Again. You simply arn't getting it and keep missing the point. That is the 3rd time now. - It would if the screen was larger and higher resolution.


Miyamotoo said:

Of Course I understand that, but that wouldn't change fact GPU would need to run at higher clock and that again means lower battery life despite less power hungry screen.

Again. You simply are not getting it. Again.

If the screen is using less power, then the GPU can use more power and the device will overall use the same amount of power as it does now resulting in a bigger, higher resolution screen with faster performance for the same battery life.

Miyamotoo said:

Of Course that yields and production capacity it could easily be an issue for Switch where was in production.

Not really. These are tiny chips and you can fit a ton of these chips on a wafer. And because the chips are relatively small, you get higher yields. Physics. Isn't it an amazing thing?

Miyamotoo said:

Chips exist but most likly they couldnt be done on time for Switch (fully tested with huge stock already produced), Nintendo couldn't wait last minute for X2 chips, like I wrote: you need to have chip totally ready, tested with good yield,with good strong production capacity for new chip, and already produced millions of chips months before mass production of Switch itelf starts.

Nintendo wouldn't have been waiting last minute.

What part of... "Tegra X2 Demonstrated in January 2016" and "Switch launches in March 2017" is last minute? Not to mention there was working silicon in 2015, that wasn't production level ready.

But don't take my word for it.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9902/nvidia-discloses-2016-tegra

Hotchips 2016:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10596/hot-chips-2016-nvidia-discloses-tegra-parker-details

These aren't custom chips Nintendo is buying. Once a chip has been taped out the design is pretty much done. That was over a year ago, nVidia just doesn't have any buyers. No buyers, no selling, no manufacturing.

Tegra Xavier will start sampling in Q4 2017. What that means is there will not be any consumer tablets, phones, boxes of any kind that used the Pascal/Tegra X2 chip... Because, nVidia didn't get any contracts or design wins.

Again, some linkage:
http://wccftech.com/nvidia-xavier-soc-tegra-volta-gpu-announced/

Tegra X2/Parker was being designed as far back as 2013. Is 4 years enough time? ;)

Evidence:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/19/nvidia_tegra_logan_and_parker/
http://wccftech.com/nvidia-tegra-roadmap-updated-tegra-6-parker-soc-feature-maxwell-gpu-project-denver/

But this ignores the fact that there were Tegra X2/Parker/Pascal based chips in October 2016 in all Tesla powered vehicles. So mass-production would have started a long time earlier.

Miyamotoo said:

Also you need to consider that even X2 chips could be done on time, they would have much higer price than X1 chips and automaticly means higher price point for Switch. Because new 16nm chip production for X2 would have much higher price than price Nvidia gave Nintendo for X1 chips, there are infos that Nvidia had huge stocks of X1 chips and they gave Nintendo great price and offer to use them.

Cost isn't my problem. I am a consumer. I want more at a lower price. And so should you.
A business isn't going to send you flowers and cake because you bought their product, you don't owe them anything.

Nor do we actually know the costing anyway.

Also 16nm isn't "new". It's based on 20nm.

It seems you don't get it and you missing point, I talking about current 6.2" screen and current chip, not how would that look at 8" screen powered buy more efficient chip.

Again you are that dont get it, lower power screen doesn't mean that will Switch use so much less power that will be able to run at higher clocks needed for 1080p and that battery life will remain same. You don't know if that will be some amount of power, hardly that Amoled screen could cover GPU power needed going from 307MHz to 756MHz. Also Amoled screen has more higher price than IPS so that also could effect on final selling Switch price.

Disagree, and actually we had infos that Nvidia 16nm yields are not good. Not to mention you would need to find production capacity and we already know that all 16nm productions capacity are very buked. You do realise that demonstration and availability for market are not same things, you will see when this last Tegra chip will be used, we even got 1st Tegra X1 devices in 2015. despite "Tegra X2/Parker was being designed as far back as 2013", and we still dont have one single Tegra X2 product on market. Also we got finals specs of Tegra X2 at end of Avgust 2016. not in 2013, 2014. or 2015.

https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2016/08/22/parker-for-self-driving-cars/

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-tegra-parker-soc-hot-chips/

 

What you feel about cost is very subjectively, objectively Nintendo was aiming at more affordable price point off around $300 because and they chased best parts that will fit in that price point while they still making profit on evre sold Switch unit. Yes they could make bigger Switch, bigger resolution, Amoled or some bette screen, more RAM, maybe even somehow X2 chip...but fact is that those things would raise selling price of Switch and you can bet that Switch wouldn't be so popular and great sales if had price point that is $350 or higher.

Tegra X2 is 16nm not 20nm.



NN are great partners and i hope their partnwrship last for long as possible



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Soundwave said:
bonzobanana said:
Don't split the userbase. Switch just needs a more compact design with a longer battery life. Performance level is fine for what it is and the type of games it will get.

Saying that if they decide to act on their VR patent and produce a 1080p screen version that is a little more powerful purely for VR games and slips into a visor I'd be happy with that as long as it remains the same for standard Switch games. Although with its 1080p screen it will play Switch games in docked performance mode while portable of course if you are happy to sacrifice the battery runtime. That's the great thing about the Switch in the fact the upgrade path is easy, docked performance mode becomes portable mode. What I hope they don't do though is a higher performance docked mode than the standard Switch.

Has PS4 Pro "split the userbase"?

Nope. 

It's not 1994 anymore, times have changed, the way consumers look at different models is very different from the industry that was 20-30 years ago (which is funny because you have a bunch of teens/20 somethings here who try to talk definitively about that era when the truth is they were in their diapers then or not even born yet). 

The Switch is not the GB/DS/3DS either. People need to stop thinking about it as such. The biggest reason it's succeeding is because Nintendo was smart and realized releasing a "DS3" that was a typical Nintendo portable would not work. Why? Because people on this board still do not understand how much of an impact mobile/tablet gaming has had on the lower portion of the market. If Nintendo did that they would not sell even 3DS numbers. 

You have to give people a "wow" experience with a portable game machine now if you're going to get them to pay big money, otherwise I mean "bite size" gaming ... who cares. For too many people it's like "why should I pay $50 a a game for that when I can just have fun with these free games?". 

You gotta give people console type experiences now in a portable. It's the only way to give portable gaming value in a world where low end mobile games have eaten everyone else's lunch. 

As I said previously it already has 2 performance states and by making a new portable perform at the docked performance level there is no issue at all. As for the PS4 pro I don't think it has the sales yet to split the userbase and maybe perceived later as an unsuccessful interim model when ps5 is replaces it in a year or so as the premium playstation. Personally I've been put off buying certain ps4 games because I haven't upgraded to a pro yet and having a 4k tv I thought I'd wait to get those games when I have a pro so I can experience them with higher quality visuals. So the ps4 range has become a bit messy. I can't really justify the pro upgrade yet but have held back on certain games as I fancy playing them when I do upgrade. It's not a clear cut buying decision.

There is a long history of split userbases where little or no enhancements were done for the higher spec model. Starting with the Commodore 128 and including many Nintendo devices like DSi, 3DS plus etc where the enhanced spec was little used and exclusive enhanced games were limited in number. 

Also I don't like the current Switch form factor. I would prefer it smaller with much longer battery life, trying to upgrade the performance would be counter-productive I think. I see the current Switch like the original DS but I'm more intersted in a DS lite version. I also only think the next Switch needs to offer docked performance mode while portable if they upgrade the screen to 1080p and the only reason they need to do that is if they offer a VR option. It wouldn't surprise me if they reduce the screen size slightly with the next Switch sku and unless VR is in the mix 720p is still fine.

Saying that I have to put my cards on the table and say the Switch doesn't currently appeal to me at all, the software range, the pricing and the size and asthetics of the console itself. I guess I'll jump aboard when a smaller Switch revision is available bundled with Mario Odyssey perhaps at a £199 price point perhaps sometime late next year.



I think one of the things people are going to have to learn with Switch is it's not like any Nintendo hardware line before it.

There are a lot of so-called "rules" that are going to be thrown out with Switch. It is not the Wii, not the DS, not the Wii U, not the GameCube, not the Game Boy.

It is the first Nintendo system made to function in the world of smartphones and tablets, which is a very, very different world for Nintendo. 



Soundwave said:

I think one of the things people are going to have to learn with Switch is it's not like any Nintendo hardware line before it.

It is the first Nintendo system made to function in the world of smartphones and tablets, which is a very, very different world for Nintendo. 

I agree, the hardware just lends itself to iterative design, and due to the nature of the tech it's built on rapid advancement is expected. You just can't continue using Tegra X1's for 5+ years, it won't happen.



Pemalite said:
burninmylight said:

And there's nothing wrong with that, but the point is that you're in the minority, man. You can be a Ferrari enthusiast too, but go driving up the highway and you'll find a lot more Kias, Fords and Chevys. You can be a photojournalism enthusiast, and there is definitely still a market for you, but 99 percent of people* are satisfied with the crappy camera on their cell phones.

 

*I made that number up. Don't quote me with an actual stat, person who tends to miss the point, because you know it's beside the point. You know who you are. Just don't do it. Fight the urge. Fight it.

Am I really that much of a minority though? Can you recall the amount of backlash the Xbox One got for being weaker? ;)


Miyamotoo said:

I think you trying to compare Switch with mobile phones and tablets, but true about mobile phones and tablets is that despite 1080p or 1440p screens games running at much lower resolution, games that would run even at native 1080p resolution on phones would drain battery very fast. You also need to consider that on Switch you have full console games not mobile games like you have on phones and tablets and they offcourse requre much more power and stronger battery. Games that runs at higher resolution and actual native resolution, requires stronger hardware and stronger battery in any case.

Despite Switch screen is 720p on 6", games look beautiful on Switch screens, definitely don't look like shit.

 

I am comparing it with Mobile Phones and Tablets. Because they are also the Switch's competitor, the Switch is a mobile device remember.
Heck, I can buy a mobile phone these days with a full 1080P screen for $150 AUD. The Switch is almost $500 AUD.
There is no excuse for crappy low resolution panels, 1080P should be the minimum.

The fact is, I want a larger, higher resolution panel, larger capacity battery and more energy efficient SoC. That is what I want.

720P is garbage. It was terrible last generation. It's terrible in 2017.

On Switch in handheld mode you won't notice any difference between 720P and higher resolutions while playing a game. You maybe would notice it when you pause the game and just look for a long time on a still image.

 

It's all in your head and not something real.

 

I claim the same with a 65" 1080 P vs a 4K TV at a normal viewing distance (10-12 ft). If you turn the 10-bit pixel depth off on the 4K (becaus this is what can actually be a percieved difference) you would not be able to pick out the difference in a blind test. 

 

There are a lot of things like this that people only precieve if they've read the spec. sheet. The funniest group to poke at with things like this are Hi-Fi idiots and mp3 files form 192 kbps and up. Time and time again studies show that people can't hear the difference between uncompressed and mp3 (and in some cases lower bit rate files are favoured over higher bit rate files) in double blind tests. It has gotten to the point that the general consensus among people on Hi-Fi forums claim that controlled double bilnd test does't count. It's hillarious :)



Barkley said:
Soundwave said:

I think one of the things people are going to have to learn with Switch is it's not like any Nintendo hardware line before it.

It is the first Nintendo system made to function in the world of smartphones and tablets, which is a very, very different world for Nintendo. 

I agree, the hardware just lends itself to iterative design, and due to the nature of the tech it's built on rapid advancement is expected. You just can't continue using Tegra X1's for 5+ years, it won't happen.

Yeah and beyond that it exists in a completely different consumer landscape than what past Nintendo systems did. Kids today do not consume entertainment the same way they did even 10 years ago while Nintendo's own loyal fanbase has grown even older. Things have shifted radically. 

Switch is Nintendo shifting and changing to try and repostion themselves, just as the very design of the Switch itself breaks several "rules" of Nintendo hardware already, so too IMO will the evolution of the Switch ecosystem, and key there is the word ecosystem. I think Switch is an ecosystem, not simply just a game console, and no Nintendo hardware line has ever really made that leap. We've had model revisions before sure, but not a real ecosystem of differing hardware that can share software. 

That I think is going to be the big game changer for the Switch going forward, the days of a linear/kinda predictable NES to Super NES (five year break) to N64 etc. etc. etc. I think is going to radically alter with the Switch.