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Forums - Nintendo - Digital Foundry Looks At the Future Of the Nintendo-Nvidia Relationship

burninmylight said:

And there's nothing wrong with that, but the point is that you're in the minority, man. You can be a Ferrari enthusiast too, but go driving up the highway and you'll find a lot more Kias, Fords and Chevys. You can be a photojournalism enthusiast, and there is definitely still a market for you, but 99 percent of people* are satisfied with the crappy camera on their cell phones.

 

*I made that number up. Don't quote me with an actual stat, person who tends to miss the point, because you know it's beside the point. You know who you are. Just don't do it. Fight the urge. Fight it.

Am I really that much of a minority though? Can you recall the amount of backlash the Xbox One got for being weaker? ;)


Miyamotoo said:

I think you trying to compare Switch with mobile phones and tablets, but true about mobile phones and tablets is that despite 1080p or 1440p screens games running at much lower resolution, games that would run even at native 1080p resolution on phones would drain battery very fast. You also need to consider that on Switch you have full console games not mobile games like you have on phones and tablets and they offcourse requre much more power and stronger battery. Games that runs at higher resolution and actual native resolution, requires stronger hardware and stronger battery in any case.

Despite Switch screen is 720p on 6", games look beautiful on Switch screens, definitely don't look like shit.

 

I am comparing it with Mobile Phones and Tablets. Because they are also the Switch's competitor, the Switch is a mobile device remember.
Heck, I can buy a mobile phone these days with a full 1080P screen for $150 AUD. The Switch is almost $500 AUD.
There is no excuse for crappy low resolution panels, 1080P should be the minimum.

The fact is, I want a larger, higher resolution panel, larger capacity battery and more energy efficient SoC. That is what I want.

720P is garbage. It was terrible last generation. It's terrible in 2017.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

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Soundwave said:
burninmylight said:

And there's nothing wrong with that, but the point is that you're in the minority, man. You can be a Ferrari enthusiast too, but go driving up the highway and you'll find a lot more Kias, Fords and Chevys. You can be a photojournalism enthusiast, and there is definitely still a market for you, but 99 percent of people* are satisfied with the crappy camera on their cell phones.

 

*I made that number up. Don't quote me with an actual stat, person who tends to miss the point, because you know it's beside the point. You know who you are. Just don't do it. Fight the urge. Fight it.

It's less a Ferrari analogy though and more of gaming adopting an upgrade path more akin to smartphones/tablets (not quite yearly updates, but in the line of major refreshes every 3-4 years sandwhiched by lesser upgrades perhaps every 18 months or so). 

And nothing is more mainstream than those devices. 

People like buying electronics, the whole thing of the "angry consumer pissed off that company X/Y/Z is offering a better product" is simply an outdated concept in today's world. Even look at the Switch, how many Nintendo fans on this board were saying it was catastrophic if Nintendo dared to ditch the Wii U before the holy rule of 5 year support? 

Well Nintendo has had literally zero real backlash to their decision to move on. Sony has had zero for PS4 Pro. And MS is likely going to get little/none for Scorpio. Times, they have changed. 

OK, but I (and others) aren't talking about the masses accepting the new world order of frequent incremental upgrades. I meant that the masses aren't hardware enthusiasts who care about powerful, beastly devices. They don't associate "cool tech" with power, but with convenience or features.

Apple isn't selling yearly iPhone upgrades to the vast  majority of people based on numbers like "125 percent faster processor!" or "___ DPI screen." It's selling new iPhones based on things like, "This new model now has a front facing camera for easier selfies!" or, "Now you can use your phone as a WiFi hotspot for you other devices!". Yes, there are people who buy newer phones and tablets for better screen and graphical quality and whatnot, but the point is that they don't represent the majority. The layman on the street don't give a shit about numbers and nerdy acronyms.



Pemalite said:
burninmylight said:

And there's nothing wrong with that, but the point is that you're in the minority, man. You can be a Ferrari enthusiast too, but go driving up the highway and you'll find a lot more Kias, Fords and Chevys. You can be a photojournalism enthusiast, and there is definitely still a market for you, but 99 percent of people* are satisfied with the crappy camera on their cell phones.

 

*I made that number up. Don't quote me with an actual stat, person who tends to miss the point, because you know it's beside the point. You know who you are. Just don't do it. Fight the urge. Fight it.

Am I really that much of a minority though? Can you recall the amount of backlash the Xbox One got for being weaker? ;)


Miyamotoo said:

I think you trying to compare Switch with mobile phones and tablets, but true about mobile phones and tablets is that despite 1080p or 1440p screens games running at much lower resolution, games that would run even at native 1080p resolution on phones would drain battery very fast. You also need to consider that on Switch you have full console games not mobile games like you have on phones and tablets and they offcourse requre much more power and stronger battery. Games that runs at higher resolution and actual native resolution, requires stronger hardware and stronger battery in any case.

Despite Switch screen is 720p on 6", games look beautiful on Switch screens, definitely don't look like shit.

 

I am comparing it with Mobile Phones and Tablets. Because they are also the Switch's competitor, the Switch is a mobile device remember.
Heck, I can buy a mobile phone these days with a full 1080P screen for $150 AUD. The Switch is almost $500 AUD.
There is no excuse for crappy low resolution panels, 1080P should be the minimum.

The fact is, I want a larger, higher resolution panel, larger capacity battery and more energy efficient SoC. That is what I want.

720P is garbage. It was terrible last generation. It's terrible in 2017.

Yes, you are that much in the minority. I think about this sort of thing every day, about how different forum life is from real life. Yes, I can recally the backlash the Xbone got for being weaker than the PS4 on the geeky video game sites. Out here in these streets? No one gives a damn. Do you remember where the source of the real backlash for the Xbone? Starts with K, rhymes with "dissect," no one wanted it, and it tacked on an extra $100 USD. Oh, and MS tried to tell the masses that they can't play used games on it and a constant online connection is mandatory, and pretty much told anyone who doesn't have the bandwidth to handle that to fuck off. You honestly think some numbers and technical terms that 95 percent of people can't understand is why the PS4 is whipping Xbone's ass right now?

Every time I get into this sort of conversation with someone on a gaming forum, I ask them to do this: the next time you go out in public, go around and ask random people what the contrast ratio means for their televison, or the difference between RAM and ROM, or the difference between and megabyte and a gigabyte. I don't mean your close buddies, I mean people who aren't likely to be just like you, like coworkers or even family members at a barbecue. I guarantee you most people won't have a clue what you're talking about, nor will they give a damn if you try to sit there and explain it. That's elementary level tech knowledge for us, but rocket science for them.

Also, it wasn't that long ago that 360 was getting backlash for being weaker than the PS3 in videogame forums, but in real life no one cared. And don't get me started on the Wii...



Hiku said:
The only thing that would really interest me about a power upgrade would be if it allowed for Switch to get ports of the great games it would otherwise miss out on due to spec issues. But it's not likely that a New Switch would have exclusives that the regular Switch can't play. At least not many (like New 3DS). So it's not a very interesting idea to me. Although if I could chose a stronger Switch to play games with better performance, I possibly would.

A new Switch can't have exclusives of new retail games that the current model can't play for the same reason the PS4 and Scorpio can't. Does a publisher really want to sell a game that costs millions to produce to a fraction of a userbase?

I can see it for indies or for allowing more virtual console games a la SNES games on the New 3DS, but no publisher is going to greenlight a costly port of a AAA game to a Switch+ and say that owners of the basic Switch are out of luck.



Pemalite said:
burninmylight said:

And there's nothing wrong with that, but the point is that you're in the minority, man. You can be a Ferrari enthusiast too, but go driving up the highway and you'll find a lot more Kias, Fords and Chevys. You can be a photojournalism enthusiast, and there is definitely still a market for you, but 99 percent of people* are satisfied with the crappy camera on their cell phones.

 

*I made that number up. Don't quote me with an actual stat, person who tends to miss the point, because you know it's beside the point. You know who you are. Just don't do it. Fight the urge. Fight it.

Am I really that much of a minority though? Can you recall the amount of backlash the Xbox One got for being weaker? ;)


Miyamotoo said:

I think you trying to compare Switch with mobile phones and tablets, but true about mobile phones and tablets is that despite 1080p or 1440p screens games running at much lower resolution, games that would run even at native 1080p resolution on phones would drain battery very fast. You also need to consider that on Switch you have full console games not mobile games like you have on phones and tablets and they offcourse requre much more power and stronger battery. Games that runs at higher resolution and actual native resolution, requires stronger hardware and stronger battery in any case.

Despite Switch screen is 720p on 6", games look beautiful on Switch screens, definitely don't look like shit.

 

I am comparing it with Mobile Phones and Tablets. Because they are also the Switch's competitor, the Switch is a mobile device remember.
Heck, I can buy a mobile phone these days with a full 1080P screen for $150 AUD. The Switch is almost $500 AUD.
There is no excuse for crappy low resolution panels, 1080P should be the minimum.

The fact is, I want a larger, higher resolution panel, larger capacity battery and more energy efficient SoC. That is what I want.

720P is garbage. It was terrible last generation. It's terrible in 2017.

Again, if we talk about games doesnt matter fact that phones or tablets have 1080p or 1440p resolution, because game's doesnt use it, games on phones or tablets dont run at native resolution, you will hardly find any game that runs at higher resolution than 720p in any case despite screen is 1440p.

Of Course there is excuse for 720p compared to 1080p, and thats battery life, Switch battery life would be even shorter if screen is 1080p because you would need GPU to run at much higher clock, and 1080p resolution screen use more power than 720p screen. There is reason why in Switch GPU runs at lower clock at handhld mode and at much higher clock in docked mode, easiest for Nintendo would be that game runs at same resolution at portable mode and dock mode instead they need to make game to run in different resolution in portable mode and at different resolution at in docked mode, but that could mean much weaker battery.

Like I wrote, despite Switch screen is 720p on 6", games look beautiful on Switch screens, despite its not 1080p or 1440p, just because phone have those resolution, doesn't meant that Switch need them also.



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Soundwave said:

 

I think that Switch Pro could actually run games in portable mode in same resolution that current Switch run them in docked mode, that would be basically be Switch with more efficient chip that runs at full clocks like in docked mode with 1080p (maybe bigger) screen. That would be pretty good, only thing is that in dock mode Switch does not gain anything.



Miyamotoo said:

I think that Switch Pro could actually run games in portable mode in same resolution that current Switch run them in docked mode, that would be basically be Switch with more efficient chip that runs at full clocks like in docked mode with 1080p (maybe bigger) screen. That would be pretty good, only thing is that in dock mode Switch does not gain anything.

Yup I agree, they already have a "docked mode" so the advantage of the new switch could be using those improved graphics even while undocked. An upgraded switch is basically certain, I mean they did it with the 3ds of all things, and that didn't lend itself nearly as well to the idea.



Barkley said:
Miyamotoo said:

I think that Switch Pro could actually run games in portable mode in same resolution that current Switch run them in docked mode, that would be basically be Switch with more efficient chip that runs at full clocks like in docked mode with 1080p (maybe bigger) screen. That would be pretty good, only thing is that in dock mode Switch does not gain anything.

Yup I agree, they already have a "docked mode" so the advantage of the new switch could be using those improved graphics even while undocked. An upgraded switch is basically certain, I mean they did it with the 3ds of all things, and that didn't lend itself nearly as well to the idea.

Yes, and its very easy to do, Nintendo want basically change anything, same hardware. same clocks, same game, just more efficient chip and 1080p screen.

But 1st I think we will see Switch Mini/Pocket, cheaper, smaller Switch with 4-5" screen (same 720p screen) with longer battery life just for handheld play and that will effectively replace 3DS on market in $200 price point.



burninmylight said:

Yes, you are that much in the minority. I think about this sort of thing every day, about how different forum life is from real life. Yes, I can recally the backlash the Xbone got for being weaker than the PS4 on the geeky video game sites. Out here in these streets? No one gives a damn.

I beg to differ. It's common knowledge even in non-tech orientated households that the Playstation 4 is technically superior to the Xbox One, they don't understand the jargon or by how much, just that it's faster, better and looks prettier.

Plus enthusiasts and tech-literate gamers do count in the millions you know.

Miyamotoo said:

Again, if we talk about games doesnt matter fact that phones or tablets have 1080p or 1440p resolution, because game's doesnt use it, games on phones or tablets dont run at native resolution, you will hardly find any game that runs at higher resolution than 720p in any case despite screen is 1440p.

You do not need a game to run at a native resolution to see gains from it.

Miyamotoo said:

Of Course there is excuse for 720p compared to 1080p, and thats battery life, Switch battery life would be even shorter if screen is 1080p because you would need GPU to run at much higher clock, and 1080p resolution screen use more power than 720p screen.

No. And again there are plenty of prior examples where a higher resolution display has actually used less energy than a lower resolution display. Go take a look at Samsungs own transition from 1080P panels to 1440P panels in it's flagships. You might learn something.

Panel technology and backlight technology has an overall larger influence on battery life than pixel counts.

Besides, if power consumption was such a massive concern *rolls eyes* Nintendo would have chosen a more energy efficient chip. Like I dunno. A Pascal based Tegra maybe?




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

I too would agree that a better Switch is a few years away.

Switch has a few... flaws that need to be corrected. Battery probably being the biggest one.