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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Is emulating acceptable?

 

Title

Yes 126 47.19%
 
If the game is owned 62 23.22%
 
If both the game and console is owned 40 14.98%
 
No 39 14.61%
 
Total:267
SvennoJ said:
aLkaLiNE said:

In theory emulation is legal provided the person emulating already paid for a copy of said software.

Not quite

So you can't play Kirby's Adventure anymore, even though you paid for it in 1993?

Not legally, no. What you bought twenty-something years ago was a game cartridge, not a right to always have access to the game that was stored on it. And as horrid and draconian as that sounds, there is - sort of - an argument for why that should be the case.

"From an IP perspective, you are seeking to consume content which you can't have any other way, and that's understandable from a consumer perspective, but that's not a privilege consumers own," Purewal says.

"Consumers don't have the right to enjoy content for free just because the content isn't available in any other way. Now, from a practical perspective, the fact that there's no-one there to enforce those rights may be an indication that no-one will come after you in reality. But that's just down to how things work in practice; it's not a legal defence.

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/are-game-emulators-legal-1329264


I've pirated tons of games too as a teenager. I could actually afford to buy (some) games yet I spend all my money on blank media, a gaming PC and partying in the weekend. Why pay for games if you rather spend that money of something else right?..  It was wrong, yet it seemed to be the norm back then. Frequent copy parties, swapping games at school, try out a dozen games an afternoon, buy more 3.5" disks for the next batch.

When I got a job in the software industry I quickly changed my habits, never pirated again. Then I got to deal with the software I made getting pirated and dealing with the hassles of drm during development.

Ofcourse emulating is not automatically piracy. Yet emulators are often used to facilitate piracy. I applaud the efforts of pscx2 to require actual game disks. Too bad that's not practical with cartridge or any pre CD era based games. Yet it seems Sony and Nintendo are doing their own work to preserve older games with ps now, virtual console, mini nes / snes, compilations. There really is no need to emulate Mario games for preservation, they're safe, really.

Hmm, okay, to clarify, software emulation is not illegal in and of itself provided no intellectual property is being infringed upon. In the case of video game emulation, that would be the exe code used to run a given game. So, an unofficial emulator has to utilize its own language to be able to read the same code found inside a video game file.

 

Its also not illegal to back up copies of a given physical media. You have to A) have already purchased the piece of media (music, movies, games). B) be ripping data straight from the media. This means that you technically can't be ripping your data from a file off the internet. It needs to come from the actual cartridge, CD Rom or whatever physical medium you purchased it on. Downloading a complete game file off the internet is illegal if that game isn't being handed out for free by the IP owner or some sort of promotion. Torrent applications sidestep this because you are not downloading the complete file from one given source, but rather broken/incomplete chunks of the file through various sources scattered across the world that together makes the file complete. This is essentially a loophole in US copyright law and the reason why we are allowed to torrent here in the states. It's legal, but it's abused.

All of this will inevitably be a thing of the past with DRM and a digital only future moving forward. When you physically buy a game, you are buying the license to use, modify or back up that file. Obviously you cannot redistribute. When you are buying a game digitally, you are essentially leasing that file indefinitely but do not have the right to copy or modify that file. This is what digital rights management is all about, and we're seeing physical games start to incorporate DRM through an always online environment. 

It is completely legal to download an open source emulator from the internet, and play copies of games you personally purchased and backed up yourself, provided the format was physical. DRM is a different can of worms and applies to software acquired digitally, but again adheres to its own subset of copyright law. It's much less consumer friendly but also the future.



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If you can't buy it outside the secondary market it's fair game, and this is coming from someone who mostly colors within the lines.



aLkaLiNE said:

All of this will inevitably be a thing of the past with DRM and a digital only future moving forward. When you physically buy a game, you are buying the license to use, modify or back up that file. Obviously you cannot redistribute. When you are buying a game digitally, you are essentially leasing that file indefinitely but do not have the right to copy or modify that file. This is what digital rights management is all about, and we're seeing physical games start to incorporate DRM through an always online environment. 

It is completely legal to download an open source emulator from the internet, and play copies of games you personally purchased and backed up yourself, provided the format was physical. DRM is a different can of worms and applies to software acquired digitally, but again adheres to its own subset of copyright law. It's much less consumer friendly but also the future.

It's a shame it's headed that way. It was inevitable in the battle against piracy, online authentification and (temporary) software licenses are the only tools the industry has, when enforcing copyright is just too much trouble.

I did my part in helping the industry along from friendly "enter word 6 on page 17" to needing unlock keys which transformed into online drm and making physical pc games pretty much worthless :/ MS almost had its way with online authentification with XBox One. It will happen eventually anyway.



palou said:

I own both a wii and a copy of mario galaxy... 

 

Would it be acceptble (both legally and morally) to emulate the game on my PC?

 

Straight up piracy is wrong, of course, but I mean, it's not like I refused to pay nintendo for any of their work...

Morals are a personal value.

Laws are laws.

You should reword what you are asking.



palou said:

I own both a wii and a copy of mario galaxy... 

Would it be acceptble (both legally and morally) to emulate the game on my PC?

Straight up piracy is wrong, of course, but I mean, it's not like I refused to pay nintendo for any of their work...

 

Would you rather play it looking like this:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZmRYHY8FqeI/maxresdefault.jpg

 

or like this (emulated on pc):

http://i.imgur.com/EKI5au8.jpg



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no



SvennoJ said:
aLkaLiNE said:

In theory emulation is legal provided the person emulating already paid for a copy of said software.

In practice, that's mostly not the case. I'd (conservatively) wager that more than 50% of the people emulating on PC are doing so illegally through pirating without ever having paid for their own copy.

I personally see a huge problem with piracy and am of the mind that only a minority actually emulate legally (ie ripping game data from the cartridge or disc itself as a backup and then playing said back up on an emulator. All perfectly legal). But How many people seriously own the equipment to interface an SNES cartridge to a PC?

If the world functionally worked on the honor system and everyone could be trusted then there wouldn't be any concern over emulation. As it stands, an unquantified portion of people are straight up stealing money from developers/people that make their living off coding. In any medium, that is extremely gross to me. If I made a product of labor, passion and love, I'd want full control over how that's distributed. Only seems fair. Emulation allows people to bypass that step thanks to widely available files on the Internet.

I get why emulation is important. Game preservation being the biggest factor. That reason alone makes this topic tricky to handle. On one hand it is absolutely good to keep the history of gaming in tact where an IP holder might no longer be interested. On the other hand, a lot of electronic robbery takes place and the concept of emulation is widely abused. Emulation would be okay In a perfect world where it was used as intended - game preservation. That's not really the case though. I guess for me and you and everyone around us, we have to ask ourselves to use software like that responsibly.

Fwiw I have pirated as a teen without a job. That was years ago though, now I just pay for things I want.

edit: to straight up answer your question Palou, it would be legal for you to copy your Mario game and play it on an emulator. Morally, well, a forum board can't decide your morals for you. I don't think it'd be morally wrong since you've legally obtained your copy. Mileage may vary.

Not quite

So you can't play Kirby's Adventure anymore, even though you paid for it in 1993?

Not legally, no. What you bought twenty-something years ago was a game cartridge, not a right to always have access to the game that was stored on it. And as horrid and draconian as that sounds, there is - sort of - an argument for why that should be the case.

"From an IP perspective, you are seeking to consume content which you can't have any other way, and that's understandable from a consumer perspective, but that's not a privilege consumers own," Purewal says.

"Consumers don't have the right to enjoy content for free just because the content isn't available in any other way. Now, from a practical perspective, the fact that there's no-one there to enforce those rights may be an indication that no-one will come after you in reality. But that's just down to how things work in practice; it's not a legal defence.

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/are-game-emulators-legal-1329264


I've pirated tons of games too as a teenager. I could actually afford to buy (some) games yet I spend all my money on blank media, a gaming PC and partying in the weekend. Why pay for games if you rather spend that money of something else right?..  It was wrong, yet it seemed to be the norm back then. Frequent copy parties, swapping games at school, try out a dozen games an afternoon, buy more 3.5" disks for the next batch.

When I got a job in the software industry I quickly changed my habits, never pirated again. Then I got to deal with the software I made getting pirated and dealing with the hassles of drm during development.

Ofcourse emulating is not automatically piracy. Yet emulators are often used to facilitate piracy. I applaud the efforts of pscx2 to require actual game disks. Too bad that's not practical with cartridge or any pre CD era based games. Yet it seems Sony and Nintendo are doing their own work to preserve older games with ps now, virtual console, mini nes / snes, compilations. There really is no need to emulate Mario games for preservation, they're safe, really.

I'd say it depends entirely on the country.
In Germany, you're not only entitled to make a copy for yourself, but also a copy for up to 7 close people (family and friends)  if there's no kind of DRM involved.
Though it's not allowed to download a copy from the internet. It must be a copy from your own CD/DVD/cartridge/file.

About PCSX 2 though, since when does it require a DVD? An image of the game used to be enough and I don't think that has changed.



In my opinion emulating is okay, but so is pirating modern games like on your PC etc. depending of your financial situation, espacially if you are not living in a first world country. The only thing that bugs me is if people bash you for actually doing the legal thing, calling it a waste of money if you buy the original hardware and games on console.



I dont know if Im alone in this, but I am of the opinion that, if a game is 15 years old(its an example, could be older for example), then it should be legal to emulate the game.Much like books and movies, which are forms of art and are available to rent for free(older stuff mostly of course) in public libraries, the same should be applieable to games.I mean, thats already happening(with libraries and stuff).Making it available through emulation just makes it easier.

To your specific scenario, I dont know.I personally would emulate, since I always support the industry buying new games and stuff, so I wouldnt feel bad in the slightest emulating some slightly older games, but thats up to you.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Barozi said:
SvennoJ said:

Not quite

So you can't play Kirby's Adventure anymore, even though you paid for it in 1993?

Not legally, no. What you bought twenty-something years ago was a game cartridge, not a right to always have access to the game that was stored on it. And as horrid and draconian as that sounds, there is - sort of - an argument for why that should be the case.

"From an IP perspective, you are seeking to consume content which you can't have any other way, and that's understandable from a consumer perspective, but that's not a privilege consumers own," Purewal says.

"Consumers don't have the right to enjoy content for free just because the content isn't available in any other way. Now, from a practical perspective, the fact that there's no-one there to enforce those rights may be an indication that no-one will come after you in reality. But that's just down to how things work in practice; it's not a legal defence.

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/are-game-emulators-legal-1329264


I've pirated tons of games too as a teenager. I could actually afford to buy (some) games yet I spend all my money on blank media, a gaming PC and partying in the weekend. Why pay for games if you rather spend that money of something else right?..  It was wrong, yet it seemed to be the norm back then. Frequent copy parties, swapping games at school, try out a dozen games an afternoon, buy more 3.5" disks for the next batch.

When I got a job in the software industry I quickly changed my habits, never pirated again. Then I got to deal with the software I made getting pirated and dealing with the hassles of drm during development.

Ofcourse emulating is not automatically piracy. Yet emulators are often used to facilitate piracy. I applaud the efforts of pscx2 to require actual game disks. Too bad that's not practical with cartridge or any pre CD era based games. Yet it seems Sony and Nintendo are doing their own work to preserve older games with ps now, virtual console, mini nes / snes, compilations. There really is no need to emulate Mario games for preservation, they're safe, really.

I'd say it depends entirely on the country.
In Germany, you're not only entitled to make a copy for yourself, but also a copy for up to 7 close people (family and friends)  if there's no kind of DRM involved.
Though it's not allowed to download a copy from the internet. It must be a copy from your own CD/DVD/cartridge/file.

About PCSX 2 though, since when does it require a DVD? An image of the game used to be enough and I don't think that has changed.

My bad, I'm still too trusting :/ I thought pscx 2 required game discs yet it seems to support ripped versions too.

This form of emulation is still shut down regularly
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-04-24-red-dead-redemption-gta5-mod-shut-down-after-three-year-development