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Forums - Politics Discussion - Bill O’Reilly Is Forced Out at Fox News

vivster said:

I think punishing people for things they said in private is nothing more than thought policing. Imagine people seeing the thoughts about women the majority of men had in their life Most men would probably be in jail if their thoughts equated to actions. As would be a lot of women.

I still think that we should punish people's actions alone and not their words or thoughts.

Private is you are at your home with your buddies and you all are talking lewed and someone bugged your house and posted the audio.  Its not private when you are sitting on a Access Hollywood bus, miked up and you are dumb enough to not check if you are being recorded before you say something stupid.  This is no different then if you were a tech support person, on a call with a customer, thought you were on mute and said something dumb that gets you fired.  Saying dumb stuff to people you do not know and being in a situation where boasting about taking advantage of women where the posibility it could be recorded is just plain stupid.  

The other sad part is people making excuses for that stupid person.  I do not totally condemn Trump on that statement because I know guys just like him.  The fact is that he would not be a person I would Trust around my daughter, wife or women friends if I knew his nature.  Its just another part of his character that make him unfit for me to consider as a leader or someone I would follow.  It's never just one thing with Trump, its a freaking list a mile long.



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Machiavellian said:
vivster said:

I think punishing people for things they said in private is nothing more than thought policing. Imagine people seeing the thoughts about women the majority of men had in their life Most men would probably be in jail if their thoughts equated to actions. As would be a lot of women.

I still think that we should punish people's actions alone and not their words or thoughts.

Private is you are at your home with your buddies and you all are talking lewed and someone bugged your house and posted the audio.  Its not private when you are sitting on a Access Hollwood bus, miked up and you are dumb enough to not check if you are being recorded before you say something stupid.  This is no different then if you were a tech support person, on a call with a customer, thought you were on mute and said something dumb that gets you fired.  Saying dumb stuff to people you do not know and being in a situation where boasting about taking advantage of women where the posibility it could be recorded is just plain stupid.  

The other sad part is people making excuses for that stupid person.  I do not totally condemn Trump on that statement because I know guys just like him.  The fact is that he would not be a person I would Trust around my daughter, wife or women friends if I knew his nature.  Its just another part of his character that make his unfit for me to consider as a leader or someone I would follow.  It's never just one thing with Trump, its a freaking list a mile long.

See, this is the point. People should be focusing on the fact that he is an idiot instead of absolutely irrelevant comments about women.

I'd rather have a president who thinks all women are trash than a complete moron. And for some reason the US decided it wants the whole package.



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Hiku said:
betacon said:

He's not talking about going out and touching random people on their groin, there are people which throw them self at people for just being rich/powerful and there's nothign wrong with taking advantage of that, that's what he was joking about. There's a huge difference here even if we were talking about real documented events which we're not(and no, you assuming what happens doesnt count as fact). Doing something and joking about doing something is completely different.

 

So basically you don't like jokes unless they're "pc"


And I like jokes. I just don't automatically assume that he was joking, like you are. Because there was no indication of it being a joke.
The natural conclusion anyone would make in this regard would be to assume it was most likely not a joke because there was no indication of it. The only reason to believe the opposite is because you want to believe it.

No, that isn't the only reason it's the logically and reasonable mindset. I hate trump, he's a populist and liar. But attacking trump over a off beat comment rather than his ractions is plain stupid. You saying what is and isn't ok based on how you live your life and the people around you is arrogant



Machiavellian said:
vivster said:

I think punishing people for things they said in private is nothing more than thought policing. Imagine people seeing the thoughts about women the majority of men had in their life Most men would probably be in jail if their thoughts equated to actions. As would be a lot of women.

I still think that we should punish people's actions alone and not their words or thoughts.

Private is you are at your home with your buddies and you all are talking lewed and someone bugged your house and posted the audio.  Its not private when you are sitting on a Access Hollywood bus, miked up and you are dumb enough to not check if you are being recorded before you say something stupid.  This is no different then if you were a tech support person, on a call with a customer, thought you were on mute and said something dumb that gets you fired.  Saying dumb stuff to people you do not know and being in a situation where boasting about taking advantage of women where the posibility it could be recorded is just plain stupid.  

The other sad part is people making excuses for that stupid person.  I do not totally condemn Trump on that statement because I know guys just like him.  The fact is that he would not be a person I would Trust around my daughter, wife or women friends if I knew his nature.  Its just another part of his character that make him unfit for me to consider as a leader or someone I would follow.  It's never just one thing with Trump, its a freaking list a mile long.

 

" I do not totally condemn Trump on that statement because I know guys just like him. "

 

you are truly a rare and delicate flower, its good that you don't have those ugly depraved urges other men have



o_O.Q said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, you should. Or at least wait until they acknowledge that they want to have sex.

Ok, do you ask a woman to kiss everytime you do so?

I'm not someone who goes around kissing people, but if I were, yes I would.



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Hiku said:
betacon said:

No, that isn't the only reason it's the logically and reasonable mindset. I hate trump, he's a populist and liar. But attacking trump over a off beat comment rather than his ractions is plain stupid. You saying what is and isn't ok based on how you live your life and the people around you is arrogant

No, what is plain stupid is the notion that you should only attack someone based on their actions, and never on what they say. Rational people hold someone accountable for both. And I do. I've attacked Trump's actions on many occasions as well. I'm sure I don't need to give you any of the millions of examples where people can go to jail, get fired, etc, purely based on what they said. So yes, we do rightfully hold people accountable for what they say as well in our society. And that's just when it comes to the law. Even more so in everyday situations.
And especially in cases where someone brags about criminal acts (in the cases where women don't appreciate being groped), you don't want to wait for them to do it again and again and hope they get caught before you react to it. He has a large trail of sexual misconduct alegations against him to give further credence to his statement.

And it is more reason to believe that someone was telling the truth when there is less indication that they weren't. In this case, there was no indication of a joke, and he didn't think anyone else would hear their conversation. So leaning in the opposite direction, albeit possible, is still reaching.

If it's said in private than no poeople shouldn't be fired for an off beat comment if it somehow leaks to the public, if it's opinion that's a different matter. You're taking that whole thing out of context, if someones thoughts are geared to inspire actions then yes we should act upon that but just because someone says somethign you find appalling/offensive that isn't. Unless someone is actually proved to have commited a certain act I wont and people shouldn't act on hearsay evidence, there's a reason courts treat that as inadmissible.

 

What he said was tactless but we can't go on a witch hunt for every off beat private comment and base our opinions on someone due to those words, when it was clearly in a joking matter.



Hiku said:



And I like jokes. I just don't automatically assume that he was joking, like you are. Because there was no indication of it being a joke.
The natural conclusion anyone would make in this regard would be to assume it was most likely not a joke because there was no indication of it. The only reason to believe the opposite is because you want to believe it.

Except, you know, the other guy giggling like a little schoolgirl. Trump saying this with a big smile on his face, putting on a show. Like, you know, what you do when you tell a joke.

 

I can't believe NO ONE EVER talks about what actually happened. Didn't anyone watch the clip?



FragilE^ said:
Hiku said:



And I like jokes. I just don't automatically assume that he was joking, like you are. Because there was no indication of it being a joke.
The natural conclusion anyone would make in this regard would be to assume it was most likely not a joke because there was no indication of it. The only reason to believe the opposite is because you want to believe it.

Except, you know, the other guy giggling like a little schoolgirl. Trump saying this with a big smile on his face, putting on a show. Like, you know, what you do when you tell a joke.

 

I can't believe NO ONE EVER talks about what actually happened. Didn't anyone watch the clip?

If you're talking about Trump touching women without their permission, I don't think he's joking. He's probably done that before. 



Hiku said:
FragilE^ said:

Except, you know, the other guy giggling like a little schoolgirl. Trump saying this with a big smile on his face, putting on a show. Like, you know, what you do when you tell a joke.

I can't believe NO ONE EVER talks about what actually happened. Didn't anyone watch the clip?

He's laughing because he finds it amusing. That does not mean he percieves it as a joke. But he also reacted by saying "That's huge news" to the story he told him just before that about trying to f**k a married woman, so he sure seemed to take this string of stories seriously.
I told my friend about my co-worker dropping the water cooler today. I had a smile on my face. My friend laughed. It was not a joke, and he didn't take it as such.
Also, there was no camera filming Trump's expression at the time of the conversation, so I don't know where you got "a big smile" from. But even if he did, that only means he finds it amusing. Which again does not equate to a joke.

Listen to his voice. You can hear the smile on his face. When the stuff he says "pays" off, as in, produces laughter, he keeps going and going. He's exaggerating, he's joking, and its extremely obvious. You must live a very sheltered life.

Its actually possible to weave serious topics together with jokey ones.

He also said he "just start kissing them", remember that? And how did he react when he walked with that beautiful woman, that they both complimented earlier? Like a shy fucking loser that never gets anything. You don't find it strange that he's a walking, talking rapemachine, yet he functions perfectly normal around women?

 

 

Despite all this, I don't doubt that he's crossed a line or two in his life. If people find actual evidence of a crime, then throw him in jail. Words between friends however, are just that. Words.



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