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Forums - Politics - Should all beliefs be tolerated?

VGPolyglot said:
bdbdbd said:

What? That makes absolutely no sense. You clearly are opposing something you do not understand. People who make billions need to invest their money into something, and that something creates jobs and jobs create wealth. What the billionares own, are shares that have an imaginary value that's based on how they are respected on the market. You can't save money because inflation eats away the billionaires savings.

Equal distribution of wealth have no value by itself, as everyone can be piss-poor. What better welfare needs, is investments from people who have money to invest. Going a decade back, the main driver of global economy was investments that were made to China. In similar fashion there should be some driver (that has money to invest) in global economics to have GNP growing again.

What's causing today's financial problems is (loan) money that's leaving the market faster than there's new (loan) money coming on the market and inflation eating away the value of old debt.

Some food for thought: let's say a square meter in an appartment in Helsinki would be worth the same as square kilometer of desert in Africa, which would be more valuable, the the square meter or square kilometer? In the current financial atmosphere they'd be worth the same, but clearly how the real value should be calculated is much more complex than just to compare the monetary value.

So, keeping billions of dollars stashed in a bank is investing it? Most billionaires are never going to become close to spending all of the money that they have. 

Uhh, I would suggest you read into investing, mutual funds, and trusts. That isn't putting money into banks. It's capital for someone.



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Aeolus451 said:
VGPolyglot said:

Why do you assume that nobody would work? It's not humans all of a sudden started working with the introduction of capitalism.

Because with true socialism or communism, apathy is rewarded by free stuff while working is punished by the government stealing what you worked for. What is the incentive to work or work harder if you taxed more for it while people who do nothing get your stuff?

Capitalism only further incentivises what people do naturally (provide for oneself and family) and it allows many paths for people to improve their life by rewarding their effort. You want to become rich, you can by being smart with your money, life choices and what you do as a living. If you're apathetic or dumb, you'll stay poor. It's fair to everyone because you reap exactly you sow good or bad. If someone is disabled to a certain point or truly unable to work, they're taken care of.

So, I now have an idea of what you're referring to when you say communism. The government wouldn't steal anything because there'd be no government.



bdbdbd said:
VGPolyglot said:

The problem is not that we don't have enough food or energy. The problem is that we're not using the resources efficiently. Of course there's going to be work, but the current system works in a way that not everyone even can work. There's always unemployed people.

It is irrelevant if we have enough food and energy now, but will we have enough food and energy after everyone does what they actually enjoy, instead of working. And this was your suggestion.

The problems with food we currently have, are not because of efficiency or the lack of it, but because the poor people do not have enough money. 

There will always be unemployed people, but they're not the same people all the time, a spouse may be one that works and social welfare should keep the people from not needing to worry about if they get to eat and live when they're unemployed.

VGPolyglot said:

No, because Nazism relies on perpetual conflict to exist. It's still based on an economic system with winners and losers, so even when everything's homogenous, there'll be issues.

But so does communism rely on perpetual conflict. This is what people are pointing you out. There's no problem after people accept (and keep accepting) the ideology of communism or national socialism, or any other ideology there is. The rest are either dead or oppressed.

So, you're talking about a horseshoe theory where anything from the centre is the exact same?



VGPolyglot said:
Aeolus451 said:

Because with true socialism or communism, apathy is rewarded by free stuff while working is punished by the government stealing what you worked for. What is the incentive to work or work harder if you taxed more for it while people who do nothing get your stuff?

Capitalism only further incentivises what people do naturally (provide for oneself and family) and it allows many paths for people to improve their life by rewarding their effort. You want to become rich, you can by being smart with your money, life choices and what you do as a living. If you're apathetic or dumb, you'll stay poor. It's fair to everyone because you reap exactly you sow good or bad. If someone is disabled to a certain point or truly unable to work, they're taken care of.

So, I now have an idea of what you're referring to when you say communism. The government wouldn't steal anything because there'd be no government.

That's nonsensical. There's always a form of government around even if people just live in huts. 



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Aeolus451 said:
VGPolyglot said:

So, I now have an idea of what you're referring to when you say communism. The government wouldn't steal anything because there'd be no government.

That's nonsensical. There's always a form of government around even if people just live in huts. 

It'd be a direct democracy, so a representative government wouldn't be needed.



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Religions should be ridiculed at every opportunity.



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In what context?

I grew up in a school where exasperated science teachers had to deal with parents being upset about teaching biology with evolution via natural selection. I think a society has a responsibility to tell those people that some ideas are empirically better than others and retarding our development for their egos is not part of tolerance.



Trunkin said:
By individuals? No. Yes. It's up to you. By governments? Yes, every believe should be tolerated. Government should limit actions, not ideas.

Truer words are seldom spoken.



Augen said:
In what context?

I grew up in a school where exasperated science teachers had to deal with parents being upset about teaching biology with evolution via natural selection. I think a society has a responsibility to tell those people that some ideas are empirically better than others and retarding our development for their egos is not part of tolerance.

I would categorize your point as 4 - a belief must allow exposure to other beliefs.



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