I'm down for classic Nintendo sports like this

With *OPTIONAL* motion controls I'd be down for that, I think *that* would work. Motion based mini-games though ... I don't think the audience for that is there anymore. People are tired of that and the people that *really* loved it moved on. Beyond that it's hard to play on a 6.2 inch screen, standing up and away from the screen with multiple people. 

Sitting down with the Joycons held NES style, close to the screen (in table top mode) ... ok, that works for 2 people, but the "Wii Sports" style of "stand up and swing your arms around like crazy" doesn't really work on a screen that tiny. It's likely why 1,2 Switch doesn't really use the screen. 

None of those games are selling well. Is Wii Fit U less fun than Wii Fit? Or Nintendo Land less fun than Wii Play? Or Mario & Sonic Olympics less fun than previous version of Wii that sold like 7+ million copies? Is Brain Training on 3DS that much worse than Brain Training on DS to justify the huge collapse in sales?

These games are not selling well anymore not because of quality issues, it's because of an audience issue. 

The issue isn't really quality or fun, not to mention, lets be real, Wii Sports was never even one of the 50 highest quality games Nintendo has ever made (not even close). 

To be honest, Nintendo has worked so hard to get rid of the Wii brand, that really at this point I think they should just let it die. If 1,2 Switch was a reasonable hit (like say 5 million copies) ... ok fine, maybe there's something there, but without heavy bundling/discounting it's not going to get there. Let the Switch be it's own thing. 

Right now Switch has a good image as a serious game platform, don't fuck this up Nintendo. Keep that Wii/Touch Generations stuff away, you are going to poison the brand image of it. 

Even 2D Mario, I think Nintendo has damaged that by milking it too hard the last 10 years. 

What "casual" games are even selling well anymore? Minecraft and uh what? Seems to me like the market is speaking pretty clearly on what they want. Don't get me wrong there are plenty of casual IPs that are huge today ... they're called Candy Crush and Boom Beach and Monster Strike, but no one is paying $50 for those. 

You tell me with a straight face that you think the Switch would be selling well right now had Nintendo opted to make a "casual" game it's lead Switch title for launch. I can tell you right now, they would be in a world of trouble if they had been stupid enough to do that again. 

If the market is there like you say it is, 1,2 Switch should be selling at least on par with a dud like Wii Music, but it likely won't even manage that. It's the only other Nintendo published title at launch, the only other game that has any marketing behind it, so basically zero competetion, and it's not like the system isn't selling well. There should be a lot more buzz and at least some casuals on social media really rallying behind this game, instead they don't give two fucks about that. Why? Because you can do 10 minutes of research and find out there are like 20 drinking games on iOS/Android ... for free. That's why. 

12Switch makes more sense when you delete half the games and give it to kids or delete the other half and give it to drunks. The 'look em in the eye' is a legit gimmick though.

Nintendo could have easily added a singleplayer mode or support for 4 players but they didn't. Wii Sports did 10 jobs for various different demographics. 1,2 Switch will do it's job just fine.

What's its job again? To sell worse than Nintendo Land on a more popular piece of hardware? 

I'm not talking about Wii sports esque games, I'm talking something like Nintendo Land that makes tasteful mini games based off of some of Nintendo's IP or small mini IP made just for the new piece of sotware. The 2 player aspect, HD rumble, etc. can be compiled into a much better software package than 1-2 Switch.

Oh I certainly don't think they should ever use the "wii" name again lol, but there's definitely still a market for fun motion control games. The main issue is that they shouldn't be the norm, nor should they be shoehorned into games like they were with the Wii/Wii U.

I actually love a lot of old NES sports titles, and totally adored one series of games that had a certain look and feel that was just so hilarious and funny that I knew must somehow be connected to River City Ransom as a kid... these ones specifically:

For the most part since looking back I've found that the majority of truly fun and memorable sports titles weren't actually developed by Nintendo, though. I'd say the best arcade sport experience I've had from them recently was Punch-Out!!! for the Wii, which is another example of when and where motion controls can work wonderfully. Also, the characters have that perfect balance of not being Mii's/Nintendo Characters but also being exaggerated and slightly cartoonish. That's probably my favorite style for their games.

Still, I disagree with your reasoning for why they're not selling well... they weren't selling well because they were exclusive to a failed platform that only the more hardcore of Nintendo fans owned, and the primary market was gone. The Switch is a superior console in just about every way, and I can easily see these games selling again should the Switch actually prove to be a hit.

Most people I speak to have very fond memories of those games, they just aren't huge selling points on their own. That can be said for most games outside of Zelda and Mario, though.

Is there really a big market for "motion" games? Which one was the last one to be a big hit? Anything in the last 5 years?

I'm with you otherwise.

IMO keep all that Wii/Touch Generations stuff away from the Switch for a while. Let the system establish it's own identity, it doesn't need to be overly associated with old fads. 

I think 1-2 Switch could have been a good game if it had taken a Warioware approach (or even just been a Warioware title). As it currently stands, none of the usual Nintendo personality is present, the presentation itself is very awkward, and more than half of the games are outright lame.

I say this, mind you, as someone who bought it... you can still have fun with the right group of friends, but it's certainly one of the weakest "party games" I've played that Nintendo developed.

So if Zelda sells the Switch, then why should Nintendo go grovelling to an audience that hasn't been buying anything from them for like 7 years now? Shouldn't the lesson be (I dunno) like to make MORE games like Zelda, and to market MORE in that same manner? 

Seems to me like Switch is doing just fine without needing such gimmicks. Dual analog Zelda, one of the most hardcore Nintendo games ever, marketed almost exclusively to adults, just had great sales for the system. 

And it didn't even need the holiday, why because 20-30 year olds have jobs and can buy what they want, when they want. You just have to give them something they want to buy. And lo and behold, Nintendo was able to do that. 

What would the sales be like if 1,2 Switch was the lead launch title? Or even Wii Sports 3? Not. Even. Close.