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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Switch development has access to 3 CPUs and 3GB RAM

maxleresistant said:
"As many would have guessed! But after the X1 news, it seems like Switch OS is using similar resources (1CPU+1GB) as the WiiU and doing it in a more efficient way. The system is snappy as hell."

It's also barebones as hell.

Don't get me wrong, I think efficiency is more important than having a pretty OS, but a lot of features are still missing.
The Switch OS is far from doing what the PS4 and One OS does.

People are going to say : "but the PS4 and Xbox One had 4 years, when they launched they were missing features"

Yes but most of those features were new features, features that weren't available on PS3/360. Here Nintendo had 4 years to look at what their competitors were doing and build the features that were the most used and demanded by players. Everything was already paved.

Where is the VC? Vocal chat? Apps? Video Streaming? Trophies?

Why does Nintendo always go out of their way to try and not meet people expectations? From a business standpoint, It kind of baffles me every time.

I understand why they delayed the internet browser though. They need to make sure people can't hack the machine through it. That's of the utmost importance for the future of the system. I know, turns out they managed to hack it anyway, but well...

It doesn't matter that it is barebones. It isn't necessarily using this memory. It's just what they reserved for future use. Once you give more memory to games, you can't take it back. It's what happened with the PS3: they gave too much memory to games and then were unable to implement party chat down the road.



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etking said:

One core and 1 GB of RAM is wasted for no reason. Why don't they use dynamic resource allocation and more efficient programming, so that the unused core and unused memory can be used for games?

You do not need a whole core for the OS and you do not need 1GB of RAM. Instead they should kill / freeze and swap out everything that is not required while gaming. Encryption, security and networking takes a small amount of CPU and memory, but not enough to reserve 25% of all system resources available. This is not an efficient design decision but it can and should be changed.

It's not a lot off resources and easily on par with what PS4/X1 are doing. You could swap most of the memory used when gaming and give more of the memory to devs. But it would mean that everytime you tried to use the OS, it would have a delay of some seconds and probably feel slow for a while.

One of the things I hated on PS3 was how his OS became painfully slow when a game was open. You also couldn't even open the browser or do basic stuff without closing the game. The first thing I loved about PS4 was how fast the OS was with the game open, I could use the browser, change to Netflix, configure the system, open the store, everything was fluid. That's a good part of the experience, too.



torok said:
maxleresistant said:
"As many would have guessed! But after the X1 news, it seems like Switch OS is using similar resources (1CPU+1GB) as the WiiU and doing it in a more efficient way. The system is snappy as hell."

It's also barebones as hell.

Don't get me wrong, I think efficiency is more important than having a pretty OS, but a lot of features are still missing.
The Switch OS is far from doing what the PS4 and One OS does.

People are going to say : "but the PS4 and Xbox One had 4 years, when they launched they were missing features"

Yes but most of those features were new features, features that weren't available on PS3/360. Here Nintendo had 4 years to look at what their competitors were doing and build the features that were the most used and demanded by players. Everything was already paved.

Where is the VC? Vocal chat? Apps? Video Streaming? Trophies?

Why does Nintendo always go out of their way to try and not meet people expectations? From a business standpoint, It kind of baffles me every time.

I understand why they delayed the internet browser though. They need to make sure people can't hack the machine through it. That's of the utmost importance for the future of the system. I know, turns out they managed to hack it anyway, but well...

It doesn't matter that it is barebones. It isn't necessarily using this memory. It's just what they reserved for future use. Once you give more memory to games, you can't take it back. It's what happened with the PS3: they gave too much memory to games and then were unable to implement party chat down the road.

I wasn't talking about ram usage though. I don't have anything against the OS using 25% of the power.

I was talking about the system being released without being finished.



JRPGfan said:
TomaTito said:

Noob question here: Doesn't the Tegra X1 have 4xCortex-A57 + 4xCortex-A53? Why isn't the A53 quadcores used for the OS?

Yes from what I understand its a big+little chip, so it has 4 big cores, and 4 weak cores.

I dont understand why nintendo didnt just make use of say 1 or 2 of the weak cores for the OS, so they could have more CPU for gameing, with a extra BIG core for that.

the layout of the Tegra X1 cores is clustered switching (oldest big.little system), meaning that only the big or the little cores can be active at a time, because that's how they are wired to the caches

for that reason I think the little cores are deactivated at all times (= wasted silicon space) in the Switch, as the chip would've needed to be redesigned for all cores on the die to work at the same time and recent Switch die shots look very much identical to a stock TX1



etking said:

One core and 1 GB of RAM is wasted for no reason. Why don't they use dynamic resource allocation and more efficient programming, so that the unused core and unused memory can be used for games?

You do not need a whole core for the OS and you do not need 1GB of RAM. Instead they should kill / freeze and swap out everything that is not required while gaming. Encryption, security and networking takes a small amount of CPU and memory, but not enough to reserve 25% of all system resources available. This is not an efficient design decision but it can and should be changed.

I had the same question before, like pretty much all consoles, they dont give full resources to games, not like a general computing maching - computer.

The reason is most because if you allow using vitural address space and virtual memory for a console, it is actually less efficient. 

Implementation of Virtual address space and virtual memory in a computer is quiet "costly", but for a computer, it is designed to run "many" programs/processes at same time, because they are switching soooo frequently, the cost of using virtual address space alongside some kinda generic scheduling algorithm is relatively low comparing some other solutions. However, it is obvious not the case for a console, you will end up wasting CPU resource and swaping memory in to and out from disk inefficiently(this is a strong performs hit).

Also in order to translate addresses, you will need either a software translation solution or a hardware translation solution(like a MMU in a computer CPU).

Software solution is too slow and hardware solution consumes too much power(maybe).

 

And stablity and predicatablity are strong concerns for developing games on a console, as well. Giving games a fixed number of physical memory and CPU resources, I think, help a lot. 



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maxleresistant said:

I wasn't talking about ram usage though. I don't have anything against the OS using 25% of the power.

I was talking about the system being released without being finished.

Oh, I misunderstood your comment. I think it's clear it realy isn't finished and that they rushed it, probably due to Wii U's performance. It also has basically only one big game. Most Nintendo titles are scheduled to the second half of 2017. I think it was originally scheduled to launch in the Holidays, but they ended up releasing it early and doing a soft-launch.

The launch of Scorpio, plus the inevitable price-cuts for PS4 Pro, Slim and X1 S during the Holidays may also be a factor in this decision.



gentii said:


switch console looks very promising

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XzIZWO1qdg

By promising you mean a million times worse? The video shows it looking absolutely horrible in comparison...Not sure of your point here,



Turkish said:
gentii said:


switch console looks very promising

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XzIZWO1qdg

If you want to see how promising it looks, just look at a real comparison of a real game

But fragon quest graphically is a joke on both consoles, not a good comparison. Lets see horizon dawn on switch.



SegataSanshiro said:
Should be noted they use different types of ram.
XBO is DDR3
PS4 is DDR5
NS is LPDDR4

Ps4 is GDDR5



Predicted 15+ million lifetime-sales for God of War:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=234612&page=1

contestgamer said:
Turkish said:

If you want to see how promising it looks, just look at a real comparison of a real game

But fragon quest graphically is a joke on both consoles, not a good comparison. Lets see horizon dawn on switch.

While I agree that you Dragon Quest is not really using the potential of the Play Station Four, bringing Horizon Dawn to picture makes even less sense.
I mean, we know that the power of both consoles are drasticaly different so trying to compare the graphics makes no sense what so ever.

At the end, the Switch is powerfull enough to bring something like the new Zelda which is fantastic (gameplay but also graphics). And in my oppinion this shows the 3 Cores + 3GB RAM is enough to be able to build some really good games on the system.