billy07 said: rocketpig said: God, I hope not. I thought MGS2 was a steaming pile of shit filled with pseudo-intellectualism. pseudo-intellectualism is a lame argument MGS2 haters come up with. I don't think a Philosophy teacher in Texas would write an esay on a pseudo intellectual game nor does James Howells analysis and numerous other essays on MGS2 support your claim of mere peudo intellectualim present in the game.

Wow, a philosopher in Texas wrote a book about the game. I take back everything I just said.

Meh.

MGS was a great game, while many don't consider it the best of the series, its definitly a benchmark in gaming.

MGS2 was a pretentious "Hideo-You're-Not-Stanley-Cubrick-So-Don't-Try-To-Be" piece of trash. It was probably the best selling bad game in video gaming history. Its message was as brilliant as the gullable fool playing the game was willing to let it be in their easily manipulated mind.

- The game supplanted Snake for a whiney hyper-feminized male lead who was universally hated.

- The game took the quirky unconventionality and supsension of disbelief which was signiture of MGS and turned it into flat out ridiculous unbelievable stupidity.

- The game featured perhaps one of the most awkward and poorly paced stories of any cinematic style game to date and had perhaps the highest ratio of unlikeable characters to likeable ones as well.

- Every model, object or structure in the game that wasn't an organic living character was comprised entirely of pentagonal (or was it hexagonal?) panels. I've never seen such lazy environments in my life.

- Occelot was possessed by the dismembered arm of Liquid Snake! Vamp was a gay Vampire who could walk on water and use magic! Fatman was a fat man on roller blades! Olga was the, "Hey, let's rip off the cyborg ninja of MGS!" Solidus Snake not only had a stupid nonsensical name but was doctor octopus. Billy, you should have taken the money you spent on this game and used it to buy a worthwhile opinion of some value.

MGS3 was perhaps the best in the series, though a relatively unheard of instalment in comparison to its brothers, apparently a casualty of late gen oversaturation. It took the genius of MGS and found a way to make it even more genuine through the cold war and reinvented plot & character devices which in their unconventionality cemented the game together as a gem worthy of a cinematic picture. It wasn't just MGS, it was MGS + James Bond + Indiana Jones.

MGS Portable Ops was... there... I guess it wasn't a bad game.

MGS4 could be brilliant, but if it follows in the footsteps of MGS2 there is plenty of room for worry. The "Beauty and the Beasts" Third World Country Super Model death squad has many already concerned about the games integrity and the merriad of seemingly unremarkable characters making up much of the new cast. Still, until this title is released we'll not know for sure.

Kratos said: MGS 2 was worse than mgs 3 you know. Atleast i liked MGS 3 alot, mgs 2 was good but the ending: OOH i'm raiden am i real? DUUUH snake explain. *Snake gives Raiden a slap in the face* Arsenal gear: OOH I IS Computer, you are not real Jack hahaha lolz omg system error nobody is realz bbq. Yeah that about sums up the ending.

Lol I think most people who didn't like the storyline are the ones who didn't understand it, the guy above is a perfect example.

MGS is my favourite, but MGS2 was brilliant in its own way. I think it's sad that it's become popular to diss MGS2, same thing happened to Titanic (except Titanic deserved it). I blame Raiden.

LOL, just found the original post by the Texas professor... Typos and all. No mention of what school he was from or anything. Google searches turned up nothing additional.

Anyway, as for this "deep" philosophy... Did all of this occur before or after the parts where Snake hides from enemies in cardboard boxes and looks at titty magazines to cure nausea?

I loved Metal Gear Solid 2, but even I thought the ending was a load of nonsensical gibberish that obviously lost a lot in translation.

Onimusha12 said: MGS2 was a pretentious "Hideo-You're-Not-Stanley-Cubrick-So-Don't-Try-To-Be" piece of trash. It was probably the best selling bad game in video gaming history. Its message was a brilliant as the gullable fool playing the game was willing to let it be in their easily manipulated mind.

Exactly. I watched the ending of MGS2 mumbling to myself "Wow, this is a really heavy-handed attempt to be like 2001".

Problem is, Kubrick artfully danced around the subject while Kojima handled it like a bull in a china shop. Meh. The babbling on and on about consciousness and life in MGS2 fails when compared to a computer singing "Daisy" in 2001. Both are trying to accomplish the same thing. One succeeds and is incredibly powerful while the other makes you roll your eyes and hit "X" over and over again until it stops.

What's wrong with it being heavy handed? Philosophy is a heavy subject.

MGS2 is a game who psycho-bable let's below average people feel above average by feeling they understand it.

I've always been able to measure the value of a persons opinion by two standards... Their opinions of Metal Gear Solid 2 and Resident Evil: Code Veronica.

Oddly enough there is a large group of people who for some reason seem to percieve both as being the Opus' of their series. Those are people whom if I at the very least don't question the validity of their taste in video games, I at least question there status as an earthbourne organism and not an alien being trying desperately to pass itself off as a human.

billy07 said: What's wrong with it being heavy handed? Philosophy is a heavy subject.

When doing philosophy properly in a popular medium is about as delicate a procedure as balancing a bowling ball on the head of a needle, I think being heavy handed is the polar oposite of the approach you would want.

Though we can all appreciate your attempt at using something as shallow as semantics to rationalize something as deep as the approach taken towards Philosophy. "What's wrong with being non-sensical? Aren't we all non-sensical in our own way?" Yeah... put down the weed and try playing the game sober then get back to us with your opinion.

Guys MGS2 wasnt bad at all, just not as good as the other two, still a AAA game in my opinion.

billy07 said: What's wrong with it being heavy handed? Philosophy is a heavy subject.

heav·y-hand·ed (hv-hndd)