rocketpig said: billy07 said: rocketpig said: deus ex only touched upon thoe issues for a few lines at most. MGS2 had an entire 1 hour ending tackling the issues it set out to explain. There's a big difference in how deeply they explored their issues. Which means that Kojima failed as a storyteller. If you can't cohesively work a complex idea into a story without having to spend half an hour or more at the end explaining it all in great detail, you failed. After all, the deepest books/movies I have ever read/seen didn't feel the need to grind everything to a halt in favor of saying "wait, you probably didn't get my point in the first 500 pages of this book or 2 hours of this movie so now I'm going to sit you down and explain it bit-by-bit." If you told your philosophy professor at college you want to learn all the basics in the shortest amount possible from the thinnest book he'd laugh at you. Most philosophy books are 500 pages or more. Metal Gear Solid is not a philosophy book. I don't remember ever hiding under a box to evade commandos, looking at titty magazines, talking arms, or non-stop clone battles in any of my philosophy texts.

 It is a philosophy book with a few distractions to keep it fun and give you a breather. The entire reason I play MGS is for its philoophy and I expect in depth philosophy such as that in 2, because honestly 1s and 3's or Deus Ex's wasn't at a level that anyone with half a brain wouldn't know already. I play MGS as a learning experience, I on't care about the gameplay or emotional aspects. The reason I won't read a book is because a visual media can translate the words of a book in relatable and understandable terms while remaining just as deep as in the case of MGS2 if it takes the time to explore and explain its idea's indepthly.

billy07 said: rocketpig said: deus ex only touched upon thoe issues for a few lines at most. MGS2 had an entire 1 hour ending tackling the issues it set out to explain. There's a big difference in how deeply they explored their issues. Which means that Kojima failed as a storyteller. If you can't cohesively work a complex idea into a story without having to spend half an hour or more at the end explaining it all in great detail, you failed. After all, the deepest books/movies I have ever read/seen didn't feel the need to grind everything to a halt in favor of saying "wait, you probably didn't get my point in the first 500 pages of this book or 2 hours of this movie so now I'm going to sit you down and explain it bit-by-bit."  If you told your philosophy professor at college you want to learn all the basics in the shortest amount possible from the thinnest book he'd laugh at you. Most philosophy books are 500 pages or more.

Yes, but philosophy professors do not pop up at the end of summer blockbuster movies and give annoyingly long speeches.  If Kojima wants to spout philosophy, have him put it in a book that we can ignore more properly.

billy07 said:  It is a philosophy book with a few distractions to keep it fun and give you a breather. The entire reason I play MGS is for its philoophy and I expect in depth philosophy such as that in 2, because honestly 1s and 3's or Deus Ex's wasn't at a level that anyone with half a brain wouldn't know already. I play MGS as a learning experience, I on't care about the gameplay or emotional aspects. The reason I won't read a book is because a visual media can translate the words of a book in relatable and understandable terms while remaining just as deep as in the case of MGS2 if it takes the time to explore and explain its idea's indepthly.

 HAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHHAHHAHHAH

*breathe* whew . . . *giggle*

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAH

*collapse* 

Wow. Just... Wow.

No way can visual media go into the incredible depth and explanation of a well-written text. Well, it technically could but it would take forever and a day to do so compared to the written word. Well, if you read faster than Helen Keller, that is.

Basically, you just ended this conversation for me. I'm not going to get into a philosophical debate with someone who admits that he won't pick up a fuckin' book and instead defers to a fuckin' video game for help in understanding the world. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to next hear you talk up Neon Genesis Evangelion and its deep philosophical implications given that statement.

You play MGS for it's philosophy except 1 and 3 which were shallow....so what other MGS games do you play for their deep philosophy? Or any other game period? You just want a visual aid to your philosophy text, such as the ending of MGS2. MGS2 is completely alone in that it goes into a one hour long tangent at the end. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of videos on youtube that accomplish the same thing though.

The_vagabond7 said: You play MGS for it's philosophy except 1 and 3 which were shallow....so what other MGS games do you play for their deep philosophy? Or any other game period? You just want a visual aid to your philosophy text, such as the ending of MGS2. MGS2 is completely alone in that it goes into a one hour long tangent at the end. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of videos on youtube that accomplish the same thing though.

My personal favorites being "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!" and "DON'T TAZE ME, BRO!".

Deep shit.

d21lewis said: You buy a video game about guys with talking arms, vampires, and clone terrorist presidents.......for what it can teach you? Awesome. MGS3 Was a tight, well paced, emotional, and well scripted narrative. If you don't like it, cool. You're seriously in the minority, though. I liked MGS2 a lot, but it did quite a few things wrong. Either that, or we're all wrong and you're right. Either way, you won't change anyone's opinion tonight. I promise.

 best quote ever.

I almost brought up Neon Genesis earlier but defaulted to the Matrix, seemed to hit home better.

Don't Taze me bro has some startling implications relating to neo-darwinism, let us all go take a lesson.

wow so much bias against philosophy in video games. You're basically proposing a form of censorship by implying that video games should never contain long philosophical expose'. Why be against variety?