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Forums - Nintendo - So Switch raw power is 80% of Xbone or more when Docked ?

dahuman on 21 February 2017
NATO said:
Pemalite said:

*Face palm* I can't... Nah. Not even going to bother.

Read my post further up the page where I quoted myself. Sheesh.

this is usually what happens when people read a few digitalfoundry articles without processing what theyre actually reading then consider themselves knowledgable on the subject.

No, it's called I read Chinese and I know how throttling works, the impossible part is 512 Cuda cores on a die that size at 20nm, the clocks can be dynamic, so I'm not wrong to start with, he just came from an angle with bad translation.



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Pemalite on 21 February 2017
dahuman said:
Pemalite said:

*Face palm* I can't... Nah. Not even going to bother.

Read my post further up the page where I quoted myself. Sheesh.

If you are talking about the GPU in handheld mode thing, he didn't have the right info and I actually had a good translation, you based it off the wrong info to start with lol, that shit was standby mode, and the number was there as a reference only according to the translation. I mean, I do read Chinese you know

I based it off the Windows Power Shell image.
http://tieba.baidu.com/photo/p?kw=ns&flux=1&tid=4988792355&pic_id=81463e01213fb80ebd847d433fd12f2eb8389478&pn=1&fp=2&see_lz=1#!/pid81463e01213fb80ebd847d433fd12f2eb8389478/pn1

Understanding Mandarin has nothing to do with it.

The fact that it states the SoC has 516 ARMv8 cores is nonsensical and not going to happen.

The fact that two cores are operating at a higher clockrate, probably tells us it wasn't completely idle.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

dahuman on 21 February 2017
Pemalite said:
dahuman said:

If you are talking about the GPU in handheld mode thing, he didn't have the right info and I actually had a good translation, you based it off the wrong info to start with lol, that shit was standby mode, and the number was there as a reference only according to the translation. I mean, I do read Chinese you know

I based it off the Windows Power Shell image.
http://tieba.baidu.com/photo/p?kw=ns&flux=1&tid=4988792355&pic_id=81463e01213fb80ebd847d433fd12f2eb8389478&pn=1&fp=2&see_lz=1#!/pid81463e01213fb80ebd847d433fd12f2eb8389478/pn1

Understanding Mandarin has nothing to do with it.

The fact that it states the SoC has 516 ARMv8 cores is nonsensical.

The fact that two cores are operating at a higher clockrate, probably tells us it wasn't completely idle.

Yeah well I based it off the 3rd image on top of that powershell image, and the throttling is a possibility but the cuda core count is not, that's all I'm saying. I did post my gaf translation near the start you know. At the end of the day, I agree that's it's bullshit, I'm just saying, whatever the fuck it's running on, it's probably capable of it, but it sure as hell is not a Switch.



Eagle367 on 21 February 2017
Miyamotoo said:
dahuman said:
that 516 core thing looks super shady, I wouldn't think too much on it, remember, keep expectations low.

This, currently still best guess we have is that EuroGamer article with Switch clocs.

Foxconn leak is a thousand times more credible since Eurogamer leak is old and redundant at this point



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Eagle367 on 21 February 2017
dahuman said:
NATO said:

this is usually what happens when people read a few digitalfoundry articles without processing what theyre actually reading then consider themselves knowledgable on the subject.

No, it's called I read Chinese and I know how throttling works, the impossible part is 512 Cuda cores on a die that size at 20nm, the clocks can be dynamic, so I'm not wrong to start with, he just came from an angle with bad translation.

I won't pretend to understand this jargon but isn't the switch speculated to be 16nm based on the pics leaked of its interior



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

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Eagle367 on 21 February 2017
Soundwave said:
If it was actually that power it would be able to run Breath of the Wild at 1080p easily, but it caps off at 900p.

It has been stated that the final version on switch maybe 1080p. Remember Aonuma-san has said that they started development on switch only a year ago



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Pemalite on 21 February 2017
Eagle367 said:
dahuman said:

No, it's called I read Chinese and I know how throttling works, the impossible part is 512 Cuda cores on a die that size at 20nm, the clocks can be dynamic, so I'm not wrong to start with, he just came from an angle with bad translation.

I won't pretend to understand this jargon but isn't the switch speculated to be 16nm based on the pics leaked of its interior


TSMC's 16nm process is basically 20nm with added Finfet, it still uses a 20nm BEOL, but does reduce the contacted poly pitch from 90nm to 80nm, but that is thanks to Finfet taking advantage of Z-height.
FEOL does get reduced compared to 20nm Planar, down to 16/14nm.
Planar = 2D Transistors.
Finfet = 3D Transistors. Essentially.

Density between TSMC's 16nm and 20nm process shouldn't be catastrophically different, most of the gains is thanks to Finfet, TSMC does use double patterning at 20nm and pitch splitting at 16nm finfet.

The main advantage with 16nm Finfet is that there should be less leakage, which should result in less electricity being wasted... Which means you can increase the chip size (More CUDA Cores) or you increase the clockspeed which gives you more performance for the same amount of power being consumed.

nVidia is building a 512 Cuda core based Tegra on 16nm Finfet (Volta/Xaviar), which should be possible on 20nm Planar, provided clocks are kept in check, but such a SoC would shine at 16nm Finfet and lower.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

maxleresistant on 21 February 2017
curl-6 said:
maxleresistant said:

I didn't see any games looking like they are running on something 80% the power of the Xbox One.

But let's say it is;, you have to remember that the real graphical capabilities of the switch, are dictated by the handheld mode.

EVERY GAME has to run in handheld mode, meaning that the dock mode will be able to improve stuffs like framerate, resolution, or maybe have more players playing on one system. But don't expect the dock mode to be used at its full capacity. One other way to say it is that games are kind of developed for the handheld mode, then upgraded for the docked mode. They are not build for the dock mode, then downgraded for the handheld mode

Let's take a more concrete example, let's say FF XV could run on the dock mode at 720p, and a bit of downgrading, if the game can't run on the handheld mode because it needs to be massively downgraded, then the game can't be ported to Switch.

So you won't have games looking like Xbox One games on Switch, even on docked mode.

That's the thing; so far it looks like the only thing the docked mode's power boost is used for is a resolution bump, so the core graphics (textures, shaders, polygons, effects, etc) are still constrained by the handheld mode which is only slightly more powerful than Wii U.

Yeah, and it makes sense from a development point of view. Same thing is happening with PS4/PS4pro. They have to build their games for the PS4, then upgrade it.

Another example is the start of each gen, let's take the PS3 to PS4 change of gen, most PS4 games were ports of PS3 games, like AC black Flag, but when games began to be developped for the PS4 first, like AC Unity, we saw how things started to look a lot better.

But the Switch docked mode, like the PS4pro, will always be handicapped by the switch handheld mode and the PS4 (respectively).



curl-6 on 21 February 2017
maxleresistant said:
curl-6 said:

That's the thing; so far it looks like the only thing the docked mode's power boost is used for is a resolution bump, so the core graphics (textures, shaders, polygons, effects, etc) are still constrained by the handheld mode which is only slightly more powerful than Wii U.

Yeah, and it makes sense from a development point of view. Same thing is happening with PS4/PS4pro. They have to build their games for the PS4, then upgrade it.

Another example is the start of each gen, let's take the PS3 to PS4 change of gen, most PS4 games were ports of PS3 games, like AC black Flag, but when games began to be developped for the PS4 first, like AC Unity, we saw how things started to look a lot better.

But the Switch docked mode, like the PS4pro, will always be handicapped by the switch handheld mode and the PS4 (respectively).

At this point I think Switch is also somewhat limited by Wii U; Breath of the Wild and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe are Wii U games, Splatoon 2 looks like it reuses a lot of assets from the first game. They're not really built from the ground up to take advantage of the new hardware, just like cross-gen PS4 games weren't.



maxleresistant on 22 February 2017
curl-6 said:
maxleresistant said:

Yeah, and it makes sense from a development point of view. Same thing is happening with PS4/PS4pro. They have to build their games for the PS4, then upgrade it.

Another example is the start of each gen, let's take the PS3 to PS4 change of gen, most PS4 games were ports of PS3 games, like AC black Flag, but when games began to be developped for the PS4 first, like AC Unity, we saw how things started to look a lot better.

But the Switch docked mode, like the PS4pro, will always be handicapped by the switch handheld mode and the PS4 (respectively).

At this point I think Switch is also somewhat limited by Wii U; Breath of the Wild and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe are Wii U games, Splatoon 2 looks like it reuses a lot of assets from the first game. They're not really built from the ground up to take advantage of the new hardware, just like cross-gen PS4 games weren't.

We'll probably see in 2018, but I'm not expecting something anywhere near an Xbox One