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Forums - Politics - Turkey's Erdoğan approves bill giving him sweeping new powers

Qwark on 14 March 2017
bonzobanana said:
For some time Turkey was held up as an islamic nation that was progressive and democratic but now seems to be pretty much like other islamic countries. It seems on course for civil war at some point. It seems islamic belief's and political corruption goes hand in hand. Not that politicians in general aren't corrupt it just seems much worse in islamic countries. It's like a medieval mindset in the 21st century.

Well the text in the holy book may not be changed as it is gods word I guess. So it might got something to do with that. The world has changed since the medevil but the political systems in the middle east not as much as we would have hoped for by now. Religion is a useful tool for getting away with corruption. It always has been even in Europe. Enter any big church and the riches are there as far as the eye can see. Back in those days when church and state where not seperated in Europe, corruption did roam deep in Europe and since people followed the church (blindly) no matter what. So the church could get away with anything by blamong someone else. Whether they where guilty or not was irrelevant just like in Turkey and big parts of the midfle east today. If you disagree with a leader they pretty much use Islam as an excuse to get rid of you somehow.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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palou on 14 March 2017
VGPolyglot said:
palou said:

That's quite independant of religion, just a property of countries that aren't developped enough. Most of South America, Africa, and Nepal (from more personal experience) all have high corruption. China is an open Oligarchy, so already a step ahead of Erdogan, though they are slowly reducing corruption (as expected, as the the nation becomes more developped.)

 

Money in itself isn't enough - what you need is a well-educated middle class with high-quality jobs.

Well, China's "anti-corruption" efforts are actually just Xi Jinping attempting to eliminate the opposition. China is still very corrupt, and shows no signs of that changing.

True enough, I guess. I do think that corruption is getting slowly scaled down to the economy's size, though, so it the same sums have less impact.



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

Goatseye on 14 March 2017
palou said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, China's "anti-corruption" efforts are actually just Xi Jinping attempting to eliminate the opposition. China is still very corrupt, and shows no signs of that changing.

True enough, I guess. I do think that corruption is getting slowly scaled down to the economy's size, though, so it the same sums have less impact.

You should check up on China's oligarchs connection with Trump and Jared Kushner.

The TTP wasn't undone out of political ideology.



Turkish on 14 March 2017
palou said:
Turkish said:

So freedom of speech is dead in Europe, Pegida can hold rallies but a Nato ally has its diplomats blocked from entering the country. Netherlands and the other states did something very wrong and inexcusable.

Can you provide a link to the blocking diplomats thing? 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/11/europe/netherlands-stops-turkish-rally/

They also blocked another minister who came from Germany with car.



Qwark on 14 March 2017
VGPolyglot said:
Qwark said:

Those people probably don't think The Netherlands is a remnant of Nazi state now do they. But since we do have quite a few who think so. Look up the Dutch political party Denk who thinks we deliberately don't give or give less health care to immigrants appearently think we are.

Well, pretty much anyone can form a political party. However, the vast majority of them will gian almost no influence, and I assume that DENK will be no different. However, their manifesto seems to be the following:

  • a tolerant society in which we accept each other.
  • a caring society in which we have an eye for each other.
  • a learning society in which we utilize everyone's talents.
  • a sustainable society where we have to worry about our environment.
  • a just society, promoting international justice.
That doesn't sound so bad, does it?

On the surface it doesn't look that bad until you listen to what this party claims is happening in NL. Like the healthcare deliberately care less for immigrants. The acceptance part also seems to be a one way street as how they explain it in debates. International justice and Denk is also a joke not even wanting to shake Netanyahu is hand but defending everything Turkey does not even condemning Erdogan and his ministers calling NL a nazi fragment state. Also defending Erdogan's behaviour after the coupe by locking up almost every journalist he doesnt agree with. They also canceled a debate this night  (be it with a somewhat populistic counterpart and an environment party) because they don't want to debate with someone who is xenophobic according to them. For so far mutual respect and acceptance which is in case of Denk a one way street.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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Goatseye on 14 March 2017
Turkish said:
palou said:

Can you provide a link to the blocking diplomats thing? 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/11/europe/netherlands-stops-turkish-rally/

They also blocked another minister who came from Germany with car.

Netherlands is sovereign enough to be respected when they ask Turkey not to hold political rallies in the country. Especially, days before national election.



bonzobanana on 14 March 2017
Qwark said:
bonzobanana said:
For some time Turkey was held up as an islamic nation that was progressive and democratic but now seems to be pretty much like other islamic countries. It seems on course for civil war at some point. It seems islamic belief's and political corruption goes hand in hand. Not that politicians in general aren't corrupt it just seems much worse in islamic countries. It's like a medieval mindset in the 21st century.

Well the text in the holy book may not be changed as it is gods word I guess. So it might got something to do with that. The world has changed since the medevil but the political systems in the middle east not as much as we would have hoped for by now. Religion is a useful tool for getting away with corruption. It always has been even in Europe. Enter any big church and the riches are there as far as the eye can see. Back in those days when church and state where not seperated in Europe, corruption did roam deep in Europe and since people followed the church (blindly) no matter what. So the church could get away with anything by blamong someone else. Whether they where guilty or not was irrelevant just like in Turkey and big parts of the midfle east today. If you disagree with a leader they pretty much use Islam as an excuse to get rid of you somehow.

The text is open to interpretation though. I mean read this; 

When the Prophet (ﷺ) married Zainab, the people came and were offered a meal, and then they sat down (after finishing their meals) and started chatting. The Prophet (ﷺ) showed as if he wanted to get up, but they did not get up. When he noticed that, he got up, and some of the people also got up and went away, while some others kept on sitting. When the Prophet (ﷺ) returned to enter, he found the people still sitting, but then they got up and left. So I told the Prophet (ﷺ) of their departure and he came and went in. I intended to go in but the Prophet (ﷺ) put a screen between me and him, for Allah revealed:-- 'O you who believe! Enter not the Prophet's houses..' (33.53)

What's it all about? Sounds like musical chairs and then God turns up and says these people shouldn't have turned up anyway and had the free meal. I'm totally clueless on interpreting such text and its greater meaning. 



Goatseye on 14 March 2017

Recep Tayyip Erdoğan: 'We know Dutch from Srebrenica massacre'



Johnw1104 on 14 March 2017

So has it been conclusively determined that the military did indeed attempt a coup? I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist but the attempt was simultaneously so weak and so convenient for Erdogan (allowing him to clean house, install his own supporters, and greatly expand his authority) that I can't help but be rather suspicious.

The military was essentially charged with preventing autocracy and has done so numerous times so it certainly isn't out of the question that they attempted to again, but Erdogan would likewise have known that he'd eventually have to deal with them for precisely this reason. That man's behavior has suggested for years that he's a not-very-closeted autocrat at heart.



Turkish on 14 March 2017
Goatseye said:
Turkish said:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/11/europe/netherlands-stops-turkish-rally/

They also blocked another minister who came from Germany with car.

Netherlands is sovereign enough to be respected when they ask Turkey not to hold political rallies in the country. Especially, days before national election.

Why would they even ask that? Dont they believe in free speech? I thought Netherlands was a democracy, or does it only apply to them and their friends. There have been rallies elsewhere in Europe and they happened without any problems, also many times in the past.

Johnw1104 said:

So has it been conclusively determined that the military did indeed attempt a coup? I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist but the attempt was simultaneously so weak and so convenient for Erdogan (allowing him to clean house, install his own supporters, and greatly expand his authority) that I can't help but be rather suspicious.

The military was essentially charged with preventing autocracy and has done so numerous times so it certainly isn't out of the question that they attempted to again, but Erdogan would likewise have known that he'd eventually have to deal with them for precisely this reason. That man's behavior has suggested for years that he's a not-very-closeted autocrat at heart.

The military didn't support the coup, only a tiny fraction, which was controlled by Gulenists who have their own plans and agenda for the country.