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Forums - Politics - So, Trump's ban on certain nationalities is in effect.

 

Your opinion on the ban

Good! 145 35.02%
 
Get rid of this as fast as possible. 200 48.31%
 
Needs more exceptions 25 6.04%
 
List needs to be redone 44 10.63%
 
Total:414

Looks like federal court has banned the ban. For now.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/316714-federal-judge-blocks-trump-immigration-ban-nationwide



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JWeinCom said:
NewGuy said:

So the dummy prince should STFU about what our policies are or aren't. Do you have a source for your 2nd point?

http://www.opensourceinvestigations.com/syria/gulf-states-response-to-syrian-refugee-crisis-a-myth-debunked/

http://www.newsweek.com/gulf-states-are-taking-syrian-refugees-401131

Talal said:
NewGuy said:

So the dummy prince should STFU about what our policies are or aren't. Do you have a source for your 2nd point?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkgzVtT-Ez4

Thanks for the links. 

palou said:
NewGuy said:

I meant to say utopian.

Sometimes, sure, not all the time. If I tell you that in 2011 black people (13% of the population) commited close to 50% of the murder and non negligent manslaughter in the US, that is not something you can dispute. Something like climate change, where there is evidence on both sides, is something that one can draw different conclusions, sure.

To make it clear: I consider BLM to be moronic, for the reasons stated; Police does kill black individuals overproportionatly, but this mostly corresponds with increased contact with police over criminal cases.

 

On the statistic that you quoted, you can also follow through with that a large part of the poorest population in the States. Poor populations are more prone to violence - no matter race. Social infrastructure (more investment in public schools, fro example) could help with that. Also to be noted, a healthy majority of the kills are between black individuals, not interacial - this is the poor and uneducated getting into gangs, which promotes violence. If you are a white guy, especially in a rich area, the black popultaion does not actually pose a major threat towards you

Another statistic that can be looked at is income inelasticity - how difficult it is to rise in the social echelons. Much higher in the US than other developped nations.

A conclusion that you can make is that the state has failed to provide an environnement in which the american dream - that all can enter the middle class if they give a certain effort - alive, as historically poor populations seem to be unable to leave their problems behind.

I don't agree with everything but I do agree with some of your points. Just as important, if not more importan, a change in the black - and to a lesser extent - hispanic culture is also needed. We can talk about this in depth, but I will defer. Black and hispanic teenage culture in the US - especially in the inner cities - are ones that encourage erratic and illegal behavior as opposed to productive ones.

palou said:
NewGuy said:

I meant to say utopian.

Sometimes, sure, not all the time. If I tell you that in 2011 black people (13% of the population) commited close to 50% of the murder and non negligent manslaughter in the US, that is not something you can dispute. Something like climate change, where there is evidence on both sides, is something that one can draw different conclusions, sure.

That CO2 levels correspond to the main LONGTERM determent of climate is not deputable, and you won't find mcuh scientific support behind the opposing position. This is a conclusion that was made by chemists, well before industrialization could have had any impact on statistical data.

Using specific statistical data to back up your point is stupid. What CO2 levels provide a median value for, let's say, one millenium to another. Scientists can determine that, in average, temperatures should be 1.5 degrees higher if this quantity of CO2 is released into the air, based on calculations, not scientific extrapolation. From any given value, a number of factors can still make the average temerature fluctuate larger amounts (more than 1.5 degrees) in shorter cycles. The most concerning thing is simply that the highest highs over a given time would be 1.5 degrees higher.

The impacts, positive or negative, are slighlty more disputable. I believe them to be mostly bad.

I agree 100% with you here, so I am not sure who you are arguing with. There is data and evidence to suggest that climate change is cyclical and/or not man made, but I do believe that while some of that may be true, our irresponsibility and carelesness for the environment is the main factor for the climate change we are currently facing. I also believe most of the impact will be bad, but it's also a point of dispute, yes.



FIT_Gamer said:
Looks like federal court has banned the ban. For now.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/316714-federal-judge-blocks-trump-immigration-ban-nationwide

They didn't, this just concerns the individuals already in transit (people that were already in the US/on a plane during the time of the ban.)



Bet with PeH: 

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I think that US travel just needs to be much more controlled. Basically, I think you should have to apply to come to the US, no matter your religion, race, etc. there should be checks in place. You should have to have a well documented itinerary of what you plan to do while you are here. All foreign travelers and works should be required to where tracking devices. If you are here to work, you are to follow certaint rules. You don't have all of the freedoms of an American citizen if you are not an American citizen. You should not have free roam of the counrty, if your work needs you to travel, then that needs to be approved, or you need to have a higher level of clerence if you need constant traveling. That is just the surface details, it goes much deeper than that.

Basically, the US needs to take control of who is entering this country, and what they do while they are here. I think what Trump has done is too narrow, and does not solve the enitre issue. It makes since if this is a short term plan, in a lead up to a complete overhaul of foreign rights and travel in America. If this is the long term plan then, this is one place I don't fully agree with.



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

Kevyn B Grams
10/03/2010 

KBG29 on PSN&XBL

KBG29 said:
I think that US travel just needs to be much more controlled. Basically, I think you should have to apply to come to the US, no matter your religion, race, etc. there should be checks in place. You should have to have a well documented itinerary of what you plan to do while you are here. All foreign travelers and works should be required to where tracking devices. If you are here to work, you are to follow certaint rules. You don't have all of the freedoms of an American citizen if you are not an American citizen. You should not have free roam of the counrty, if your work needs you to travel, then that needs to be approved, or you need to have a higher level of clerence if you need constant traveling. That is just the surface details, it goes much deeper than that.

Basically, the US needs to take control of who is entering this country, and what they do while they are here. I think what Trump has done is too narrow, and does not solve the enitre issue. It makes since if this is a short term plan, in a lead up to a complete overhaul of foreign rights and travel in America. If this is the long term plan then, this is one place I don't fully agree with.

The problem with this as a short term solution is that it has some very nasty consequences on a large number of individuals. A number of people who had found themselves a job in the US, or worse, people that have their home and livelyhood in the US see themselves locked out, because they visited family or something at the wrong time. That was not necessary.



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

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Ka-pi96 said:
I fail to see the problem. People don't have any kind of right to enter the US. The US government however does have the right to restrict who can and can not enter the country.

So you find it ok that people that live (have a house) and work in the US and were visiting another country for a week can't return home? This affects greencard holders, visa holders.



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

palou said:
KBG29 said:
I think that US travel just needs to be much more controlled. Basically, I think you should have to apply to come to the US, no matter your religion, race, etc. there should be checks in place. You should have to have a well documented itinerary of what you plan to do while you are here. All foreign travelers and works should be required to where tracking devices. If you are here to work, you are to follow certaint rules. You don't have all of the freedoms of an American citizen if you are not an American citizen. You should not have free roam of the counrty, if your work needs you to travel, then that needs to be approved, or you need to have a higher level of clerence if you need constant traveling. That is just the surface details, it goes much deeper than that.

Basically, the US needs to take control of who is entering this country, and what they do while they are here. I think what Trump has done is too narrow, and does not solve the enitre issue. It makes since if this is a short term plan, in a lead up to a complete overhaul of foreign rights and travel in America. If this is the long term plan then, this is one place I don't fully agree with.

The problem with this as a short term solution is that it has some very nasty consequences on a large number of individuals. A number of people who had found themselves a job in the US, or worse, people that have their home and livelyhood in the US see themselves locked out, because they visited family or something at the wrong time. That was not necessary.

I totally agree that this is the best way to go about things, but I do think there needs to be massive changes to the way handle foreign travelers and workers. I hope that they can come to a sensable conclusion for people that are working here, and have previously/currently entered the country through proper channels.



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

Kevyn B Grams
10/03/2010 

KBG29 on PSN&XBL

Ka-pi96 said:
I fail to see the problem. People don't have any kind of right to enter the US. The US government however does have the right to restrict who can and can not enter the country.

When it starts affecting those people who were already visa or green card holders, you better believe it's a goddamn problem. They already have been ok'd by US laws...but nah, you still look suspicious, denied until further notice. It's an inconvenience at best and just plain disgusting at worst.



"Trick shot? The trick is NOT to get shot." - Lucian

there are people stuck in airports because of this. I don't think Trump thought this through.



Aura7541 said:
barneystinson69 said:

Playing the "racist" card with logical facts. You want to know another fact that I don't usually tell, I am of half Iranian decent. Thats right, I am only half white (well, depends on your definition, though I won't be going into that), so in the sense maybe I'm a race traitor? No, of course not. I'm saying all facts. Its not just white people who're scared about terrorism and open boarders, because nearly 30% (or 40%) of America is non-white. Stop calling everyone racist, I am willing to have a reasonable discussion, but trying to call people bigots and "pieces of shit" doesn't intice me to continue that discussion. You appologize and remove your hateful comment, and I will more than gladly not report you.

 Isn't it fun when the far left brands you as a race traitor or internalized racist? That has happened to me a number of times and I get extremely annoyed when people assume I should think a particular way because of my race.

The ironic thing is these far left types are often the real racists because they condemn you for not thinking along the lines you're "supposed to" be thinking based on your particular group, while at the same time flinging insluts and namecalling you for doing so. But sadly they'll never see it this way.. Thankfully more people from different cultures seem to be waking up to this and the far left is alienating more and more people. That's why ironically you tend to see these SJW types being white more often than not..



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden