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Forums - Website Topics - The Moderator Thread

Damn, I feel simultaneously too involved and not involved enough in this conversation.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

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StarDoor said:
Lawlight said:

2) You're right - I got lazy with the 2nd sentence in that post and should have explained why 85M is too high for a Nintendo system (for the record, the only non-outlier system that has crossed the 85M is the GB if you include the GB Colour sales numbers to it. The DS and the Wii are outliers for obvious reasons). 

 

1) As for Kerotan's post that you used as an example, there is no double standard. The PS4 is outpacing the PS3 sales, the Switch isn't outpacing the 3DS + WiiU, systems of which it is the successor. There would have been a double standard if the PS4 wasn't outpacing the PS3's sales and Kerotan was touting it as a success.

1) It is a double standard, because the bar is set much lower for the PS4 (11 million, when the best-selling Sony system is at 23 million) than it is for the Switch (27+ million when the best-selling Nintendo system is 33 million). Additionally, adding together userbases is misleading because of the overlap in console ownership, espeically in a saturated market like Japan.

2) I'm answering your paragraphs in reverse order because, taken together, it is also a double standard. You say that 85 million is too high because GB, DS, and Wii are the only single consoles to pass that mark. But how does that mesh with your previous standard of combining 3DS + Wii U sales when setting a goal for the Switch? Clearly, 85 million is easily attainable if you think that it's sensible to combine 3DS and Wii U sales. From 1997 to 2012, Nintendo was shipping over 20 million handhelds + home consoles per year. Even if you think the DS and Wii were outliers, Nintendo was easily shipping 100 million units of hardware over a 5-year period during both the 5th and 6th generations.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=230847

Since the Switch is their only platform going forward, all it needs is 5 years of typical Nintendo sales to pass 85 million.

You can't have it both ways. It is either 1) ludicrous to combine 3DS and Wii U sales, or 2) 85 million is a completely reasonable target for a Nintendo hybrid system.

1. I'm not sure what the numbers you posted are from but the PS4 is outpacing a system that sold 85M. And I'm not sure either that the overlap has any impact on my estimate of 65M as the 3DS has sold that much. If anything, the person who said 85M is probably adding them up.

2. I was probably responding to someone who said 85M but I think it's fair enough to combine the 2 and I say that that it's a good benchmark for the Switch. The Switch is replacing both the WiiU and the 3DS after all. Even if you assume that 100% of WiiU owners own a 3DS, you're still looking at upwards of 70M for the Switch.

With regards to how you go about showing that sales can easily top 85M, you're using numbers from 5th and 6th generation - those were generations before mobile came in. You have to consider the fact that handheld sales are not what they used to be.



Wow, this was pretty lively while I was asleep!!



CGI-Quality said:
padib said:.

In the same line of thought, about a better atmosphere in the community, all in all , I am getting the feeling that the method of moderation in general has shifted more towards reacting than preventing. I see more enforcement of rules, but less encouragement, less of the "older brother" approach I've seen in the past, where mods try to lead the users into bettering themselves.

Examples of mods who I saw do that in the past are Axumblade and Smeags, and early on Carl. But now I have to admit I don't see it as much, but I see more of a robotic kind of way of enforcing the rules and that's perhaps why there is this cold kind of atmosphere where it's about rules rather than about spirit and attitude.

I'm not saying this to hurt or to discourage anyone, on the contrary I offer this as a challenge to the mod team. Also this is not something I can prove, it is a general sense of the energy on the site over the past 2 years.

I disagree with this, at least in several cases of people on The Team. You might not catch it or see it, but a few of us have tried the "coaching" method. Still do, in fact. I was once called the "PM/Warning" mod because I would rarely ban. I still do the PMs, too. But we're always looking for ways to improve, because of course, we're not perfect (the very existence of this thread, as an example). Not everyone worked well with "Big Brother" Mods, despite our efforts, though.

Frankly, I think we are much easier on y'all then the mods of my heyday. If people tried to say half the things to MontanaHatchet or OnyxMeth, let's say, that they have to me, Super_Boom, or Miguel, there's no question what would have happened. ( ) That's why I respected those guys so much. Did not put up with any mess, while still being great moderators overall.  

Yeah, but then again, the reason why I like the mods here is because they're nice and approachable. Miguel, Axum, Boom, Bristow, Raven, Ryuu, I like how I can just talk to them and they treat me more as a friend, rather than as some distant person. A lot of the time we don't even talk about VGC, but I just like the pleasant discussion. That's what I enjoy about the mod team here.



Only thing i want to add here for Kero "switch has to beat 3ds+wiiu" is the fact that its weird he doesnt compare Switch to PS4 because of his term "traditional" home console whenever switch wins a weekmonth/etc yet its ok for him to use the "traditional" home console wiiu and "traditional" handheld 3ds combined to Goal Post.

I said it here so i wont make a 2-3page arguement in thr next MC thread with him lol



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Lawlight said:
StarDoor said:

1) It is a double standard, because the bar is set much lower for the PS4 (11 million, when the best-selling Sony system is at 23 million) than it is for the Switch (27+ million when the best-selling Nintendo system is 33 million). Additionally, adding together userbases is misleading because of the overlap in console ownership, espeically in a saturated market like Japan.

2) I'm answering your paragraphs in reverse order because, taken together, it is also a double standard. You say that 85 million is too high because GB, DS, and Wii are the only single consoles to pass that mark. But how does that mesh with your previous standard of combining 3DS + Wii U sales when setting a goal for the Switch? Clearly, 85 million is easily attainable if you think that it's sensible to combine 3DS and Wii U sales. From 1997 to 2012, Nintendo was shipping over 20 million handhelds + home consoles per year. Even if you think the DS and Wii were outliers, Nintendo was easily shipping 100 million units of hardware over a 5-year period during both the 5th and 6th generations.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=230847

Since the Switch is their only platform going forward, all it needs is 5 years of typical Nintendo sales to pass 85 million.

You can't have it both ways. It is either 1) ludicrous to combine 3DS and Wii U sales, or 2) 85 million is a completely reasonable target for a Nintendo hybrid system.

1. I'm not sure what the numbers you posted are from but the PS4 is outpacing a system that sold 85M. And I'm not sure either that the overlap has any impact on my estimate of 65M as the 3DS has sold that much. If anything, the person who said 85M is probably adding them up.

2. I was probably responding to someone who said 85M but I think it's fair enough to combine the 2 and I say that that it's a good benchmark for the Switch. The Switch is replacing both the WiiU and the 3DS after all. Even if you assume that 100% of WiiU owners own a 3DS, you're still looking at upwards of 70M for the Switch.

With regards to how you go about showing that sales can easily top 85M, you're using numbers from 5th and 6th generation - those were generations before mobile came in. You have to consider the fact that handheld sales are not what they used to be.

1. Those were Japanese numbers, because Kerotan's comments were in the Media Create thread, and we were specifcally talking about the Switch passing the 3DS + Wii U in Japan versus the PS4 passing the PS3 in Japan. Globally, it's not as skewed; 85 million worldwide is much more attainable for the Switch than 27 million is in Japan, because the Switch has much more room for improvement in North America and Europe. Nintendo's highest Japanese sales were 33 million, while their highest sales in the Americas + Other were 121 million. We can see this with the sales data we currently have: The Switch is performing at the same level as the 3DS in Japan, while it is doing far better than the 3DS in North America and Europe.

2. Even 3DS + Wii U is going to be at 85 million by March 31st, 2018, and this is a generation in which Nintendo made every mistake possible with their hardware designs. If the 3DS can reach 72 million even with the existence of mobile, then the Switch won't have a problem doing that either.



Bristow9091 said:

Yeah, but then again, the reason why I like the mods here is because they're nice and approachable. Miguel, Axum, Boom, Bristow, Raven, Ryuu, I like how I can just talk to them and they treat me more as a friend, rather than as some distant person. A lot of the time we don't even talk about VGC, but I just like the pleasant discussion. That's what I enjoy about the mod team here.

Yay I'm nice and approachable! :P But yeah I think this is the best way to be, I don't want people to see me as some robotic ban machine that they can't talk to just because I have a green moderator label or whatever you want to call it, might as well just say "because I'm a moderator", I mean, we're still human (Except for CGI, he's a highly advanced AI, which would explain why he wasn't on your list!) and like to have fun and talk about random stuff... you know this first hand about me after all, lol. 

I didn't put CGI on as I don't know him/haven't spoken to him as well/much as the people I listed (of course that could still change ), but yeah, I really do enjoy talking to you!! Actually, I guess if there's one thing about this community, I may enjoy talking to people too much



There are people that are defending Kerotan? Wow



Proud to be a Californian.

RolStoppable said:
Bristow9091 said:

Ah, I see you're still upset about that...

"You know as well as anybody that you can't just call someone an idiot even if you don't agree with what they're saying. There are plenty of ways to get your point across without resorting to insults."

I'd hardly call that a robotic response, I mean sure it does rely on the tried and true structure of a moderation note, but when a rule says you can't call other people an idiot, and you come out with "You really are an idiot.", then the fall back becomes necessary. 

*EDIT for specific response to Bristow that I forgot to type.

I wasn't refering to the moderation note, but the mod responses to my appeal.*

CGI-Quality said:

I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. Regardless if the other party is offended or not, you shouldn't have called them what you called them. The bottom line is it was wrong and you know better!

I'll give you a hypothetical example.

Poster A: You are an idiot. I am stunned someone believes what you believe.
Poster B: Hold on a second. You misunderstood me. Here's what I really meant.
Poster A: Ah, okay. That makes more sense. Sorry for being rude earlier.

Later a third party files a report for poster A's first post. A robot mod issues a moderation because a rule was violated and that's all that matters. A human could review the conversation and take the context into account, so it's not a given that a moderation would be issued. 

The above does not represent my specific ban, it's only meant to show a fundamental flaw in the line of thinking that breaking a rule is the only thing that matters. What happened during my specific ban is that a third party reported my post, the mod team seemingly only ran a CTRL+F search for the word 'idiot' and called it a day because the whole conversation had too many long posts.

If you want to read up on a practical example with a much harsher tone than a single use of the word 'idiot', you can check DerNebel's moderation history and view a moderation by Mr Khan that contains such a case which was eventually overturned by Mr Khan himself.

People could say that you calling other people idiots is a robotic response as well.



CGI-Quality said:
RolStoppable said:

*EDIT for specific response to Bristow that I forgot to type.

I wasn't refering to the moderation note, but the mod responses to my appeal.*

I'll give you a hypothetical example.

Poster A: You are an idiot. I am stunned someone believes what you believe.
Poster B: Hold on a second. You misunderstood me. Here's what I really meant.
Poster A: Ah, okay. That makes more sense. Sorry for being rude earlier.

Later a third party files a report for poster A's first post. A robot mod issues a moderation because a rule was violated and that's all that matters. A human could review the conversation and take the context into account, so it's not a given that a moderation would be issued. 

The above does not represent my specific ban, it's only meant to show a fundamental flaw in the line of thinking that breaking a rule is the only thing that matters. What happened during my specific ban is that a third party reported my post, the mod team seemingly only ran a CTRL+F search for the word 'idiot' and called it a day because the whole conversation had too many long posts.

If you want to read up on a practical example with a much harsher tone than a single use of the word 'idiot', you can check DerNebel's moderation history and view a moderation by Mr Khan that contains such a case which was eventually overturned by Mr Khan himself.

I reviewed the entire conversation. I don't think Bristow was too hard on you. I will say that I probably wouldn't hand down a moderation right at the first sight of the word "idiot", but if someone makes a habit out of it, then action should be taken. All of The Mod Team agrees on that.

fucker something you like

Picture removed for lewd imagery -RavenXtra