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Forums - Gaming - Ex-Ubisoft Dev: Direct ports from PS4/Xbox One to Nintendo Switch not possible

nuckles87 said:
Pemalite said:

The iPad Pro is also much thinner than the Switch.
Manufacturers can take advantage of Z volume just as much as Height and Width of a device... As for costs. You know Apple loves it's profit margins right? Nintendo gets the majority of it's profit back from the games. It's not an Apples to Apples comparison. (Pun intended.)

Price is mostly eaten up by things like the screen and battery, SoC's are relatively cheap.

As for ARM chips better than the Xbox One? None exist just yet, but one should land Next year from nVidia which is Volta powered.
ARM's BiFrost, PowerVR 7XT Plus, Adreno 540 can all soundly beat the Switch without much issue and get "Close enough" to the Xbox One.

Adreno 530 and 4th Gen Midgard can give the underclocked Switch a sound beating as well, the important point is "Good enough" in terms of performance, right now the Switch doesn't fall into that category, Nintendo is using a seriously decent mobile GPU and then castrated it, likely just to lower costs.

People would have been happy if the Switch got current gen games at 720P and slightly lowered settings verses the Current generation consoles, but that chance has been soundly thrown out the window and people aren't pleased. And they shouldn't be pleased.

Alright, I don't know much about obscure tablets or GPUs, so I'm gonna need your help here: is there currently a device, the size of the Switch, that hits the 70% of Xbox One power benchmark you mentioned, that is out right now? Cuz I've never heard of one, but if it exists I'd at least find that interesting. 

 

Iphone 7pro house a stronger cpu/gpu while also being a mobile phone and having a smaller size and better build quality and os. So yea nothing abt switch spec is special



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Goodnightmoon said:

Comparing it with consoles and PCs wheen you should b comparing it with handhlds and laptops.

No. The Switch is *also* competing against the PC, Xbox One, Playstation 4, Scorpio, Playstation 4 Pro, Tablets, Phones, Laptops and other Handhelds.

So it can be compared against anything and everything. That is Nintendo's marketing position and that is the position it shall be compared against.

Don't move the goal posts just because you may not agree with the results.

nuckles87 said:

Alright, I don't know much about obscure tablets or GPUs, so I'm gonna need your help here: is there currently a device, the size of the Switch, that hits the 70% of Xbox One power benchmark you mentioned, that is out right now? Cuz I've never heard of one, but if it exists I'd at least find that interesting. 

Full clocked, Maxwell based Tegra should get close enough, so that would mean the Pixel C, Shield TV etc'.
Pascal based Tegra without a doubt.
Volta based Tegra should be faster than the Xbox One if early hardware stats are anything to go by, should be released this year.

Apple's A9X in the iPad should be pretty competitive as well. (In-fact in many cases it's faster than Tegra.)

But they all have one caveat. They need resolutions to be kept fairly low, otherwise they become bandwidth and ROP starved.

The Xbox One is using an old Radeon 7770-class Graphics Core Next, 1st Generation GPU. It's not as efficient as Maxwell or Pascal by a long shot, the most accurate way to compare them is to take something like the Geforce 920M and compare it against AMD's Radeon 7770 in real world games.
But even then you need to take into account the 920M isn't always going to be as fast as Tegra due to it's bandwidth deficit and the Tegra might loose to the 920M in shader heavy scenario's.




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Pemalite said:
Goodnightmoon said:

Comparing it with consoles and PCs wheen you should b comparing it with handhlds and laptops.

No. The Switch is *also* competing against the PC, Xbox One, Playstation 4, Scorpio, Playstation 4 Pro, Tablets, Phones, Laptops and other Handhelds.

So it can be compared against anything and everything. That is Nintendo's marketing position and that is the position it shall be compared against.

Don't move the goal posts just because you may not agree with the results.

I'm not moving anything, the problem is that you don't seem to understand what Switch actually is, you would never say a laptop is shitty because it loses big time in power compared to a PC of similar price, and that's because we all understand laptops are a different beast, but you insist on doing that here.



Goodnightmoon said:
Pemalite said:

No. The Switch is *also* competing against the PC, Xbox One, Playstation 4, Scorpio, Playstation 4 Pro, Tablets, Phones, Laptops and other Handhelds.

So it can be compared against anything and everything. That is Nintendo's marketing position and that is the position it shall be compared against.

Don't move the goal posts just because you may not agree with the results.

I'm not moving anything, the problem is that you don't seem to not understand what Switch actually is, you would never say a laptop is shitty because it loses big time in power compared to PC because we all understand laptops are a different beast, but you insist on doing that here.

Well laptops are shitty when they are used as a pc, which they are 99% of the time.

Nintendo and certain fans insist that the Switch is a home console first and foremost. Nintendo used a mobile processor for it. They didn't have to do it but they did, so now it's gonna be compared to what it apparently wants to be.

BTW comparisons to mobile devices aren't really favorable for the Switch either.



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vivster said:
Goodnightmoon said:

I'm not moving anything, the problem is that you don't seem to not understand what Switch actually is, you would never say a laptop is shitty because it loses big time in power compared to PC because we all understand laptops are a different beast, but you insist on doing that here.

Well laptops are shitty when they are used as a pc, which they are 99% of the time.

Nintendo and certain fans insist that the Switch is a home console first and foremost. Nintendo used a mobile processor for it. They didn't have to do it but they did, so now it's gonna be compared to what it apparently wants to be.

BTW comparisons to mobile devices aren't really favorable for the Switch either.

Yet people buy more laptops than PCs

What about comparisons to other 250$ mobile devices though?

As I see it Switch is the laptop of consoles, for good and for bad.



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Goodnightmoon said:
Pemalite said:

No. The Switch is *also* competing against the PC, Xbox One, Playstation 4, Scorpio, Playstation 4 Pro, Tablets, Phones, Laptops and other Handhelds.

So it can be compared against anything and everything. That is Nintendo's marketing position and that is the position it shall be compared against.

Don't move the goal posts just because you may not agree with the results.

I'm not moving anything, the problem is that you don't seem to understand what Switch actually is, you would never say a laptop is shitty because it loses big time in power compared to a PC of similar price, and that's because we all understand laptops are a different beast, but you insist on doing that here.

Actually it really depends on what laptop you're comparing with what pc. If it's buck for buck, yeah the laptops will be worse but not nearly as bad as switch in handleheld mode (at least according to rumors) compared to xboxone or ps4. And of course there're gaming laptops that can output 4k content with ease. Which is really why you should have different options while retaining compatibility.



Pemalite said:
Goodnightmoon said:

Comparing it with consoles and PCs wheen you should b comparing it with handhlds and laptops.

No. The Switch is *also* competing against the PC, Xbox One, Playstation 4, Scorpio, Playstation 4 Pro, Tablets, Phones, Laptops and other Handhelds.

So it can be compared against anything and everything. That is Nintendo's marketing position and that is the position it shall be compared against.

Don't move the goal posts just because you may not agree with the results.

nuckles87 said:

Alright, I don't know much about obscure tablets or GPUs, so I'm gonna need your help here: is there currently a device, the size of the Switch, that hits the 70% of Xbox One power benchmark you mentioned, that is out right now? Cuz I've never heard of one, but if it exists I'd at least find that interesting. 

Full clocked, Maxwell based Tegra should get close enough, so that would mean the Pixel C, Shield TV etc'.
Pascal based Tegra without a doubt.
Volta based Tegra should be faster than the Xbox One if early hardware stats are anything to go by, should be released this year.

Apple's A9X in the iPad should be pretty competitive as well. (In-fact in many cases it's faster than Tegra.)

But they all have one caveat. They need resolutions to be kept fairly low, otherwise they become bandwidth and ROP starved.

The Xbox One is using an old Radeon 7770-class Graphics Core Next, 1st Generation GPU. It's not as efficient as Maxwell or Pascal by a long shot, the most accurate way to compare them is to take something like the Geforce 920M and compare it against AMD's Radeon 7770 in real world games.
But even then you need to take into account the 920M isn't always going to be as fast as Tegra due to it's bandwidth deficit and the Tegra might loose to the 920M in shader heavy scenario's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vnej0LhsEM&t   Dude comparing 920m to xbone is a joke, look at this video 940m cant play watch dogs 2 on lowest graphics 720p. Also I feel the stuff you spewing and how powerful mobile perfomance is very exaggerated. Tegra maxwell draws 20w fully use, this is a fact you have linked once and which means pixel c (the tablet) is in no way can sustain that perfomance if pushed to the max. And this is the case for every smartphone and tablet if the cpu and gpu at the same time is pushed to the max it will throttle very hard.



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"Content also need to be simplified"

WTF did he mean by that?



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KungKras said:
"Content also need to be simplified"

WTF did he mean by that?

Most likely he means that - "Around 50% of modern game engine frame time goes to running compute shaders (lighting, post processing, AA, AO, reflections, etc)". Switch won't be able to handle them as is so they'd have to cut/reduce them. Which will also mean they'll have to compensate with something else in order to not make it look like shit.



Goodnightmoon said:

you would never say a laptop is shitty because it loses big time in power compared to a PC of similar price, and that's because we all understand laptops are a different beast, but you insist on doing that here.

Don't put words in my mouth, especially for something I have never stated.

I often avoid recommending laptops due to their inherent performance deficits relative to a similarly priced Desktop PC.

Trumpstyle said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vnej0LhsEM&t   Dude comparing 920m to xbone is a joke, look at this video 940m cant play watch dogs 2 on lowest graphics 720p. Also I feel the stuff you spewing and how powerful mobile perfomance is very exaggerated. Tegra maxwell draws 20w fully use, this is a fact you have linked once and which means pixel c (the tablet) is in no way can sustain that perfomance if pushed to the max. And this is the case for every smartphone and tablet if the cpu and gpu at the same time is pushed to the max it will throttle very hard.

You don't compare PC games directly to Console as some kind of accurate representation.
You take two PC chips and compare them against each other to see roughly the performance difference.
A Radeon 7770 isn't going to be playing games at the same level as the Xbox One.

The point was to take the 920M and compare it to a 7770 to see how much faster the 7770 was. That was it.

Besides if you cared to read what I stated, I stated that in bandwidth-bound scenario's, the 920M would be inferior to the Switch, 720P could be memory-bandwidth bound for the 920M's pathetics 14.4GB/s bandwidth. (The fact it was running the game at 720P is a testament.)
Plus the 920M is a Kepler powered GPU, not Maxwell so it also doesn't get colour compression and doesn't use nVidia's tiled based rasterization for better utilization of it's limited bandwidth.
The point was, that it was the rough "ball park" not something you should take as 100% gospel.

As for Maxwell powered Tegra... If you underclock the CPU by 90% like Nintendo has done, suddely the GPU gets more TDP to play with, doesn't it? ;)

The newer BiFrost powered GPU's even throttled will outperform the Switch.

Jesus Christ. No wonder I take long breaks from this forum.

Safiir said:

Most likely he means that - "Around 50% of modern game engine frame time goes to running compute shaders (lighting, post processing, AA, AO, reflections, etc)". Switch won't be able to handle them as is so they'd have to cut/reduce them. Which will also mean they'll have to compensate with something else in order to not make it look like shit.

If it uses half precision for some of those effects, I don't see why some couldn't be retained, but you are right.

Developers will likely be forced to go with the pre-calculated/baked route rather than the dynamic effects we have come to enjoy this generation.




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