By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - Playing Nier Automata makes me sad for the sad state of combat in Western games

Ruler said:
Ali_16x said:

Lmao what? No one talks about FFXII and people talk about FFXIII because it's a shit game. So I'm not sure how that's proving your point.

And as someone whose played both FFXV and The Witcher 3, and whose a fan of Final Fantasy and JRPG, The Witcher 3 is a better game. FFXV was disappointing as fuck because I expected a story, yet there wasn't one there. And honestly, even then I was excited for the world but that felt empty. The best thing about FFXV were the dungeons. 

And even though I've played FFXV more recently and The Witcher 3 over 9 months ago, I'm still thinking about how beautiful and world was and how engaging the quests were. The quests in FFXV......so meh. A perfect example of a game that didn't need to go open world.

FF was always open world that was the vision since it was made, i doubt youre a FF fan. There was no story in the Witcher 3, you can do alot more in FFXV than in the Witcher 3 this is a fact.

Lmao man sometimes your love for JRPGs is just real sad. The first FF game I played was FFIX and FFX, which really got my into FF is one of the best games I've ever played, probably played it over 10 times. I even bought and FFXIII and XIII-2 and actually enjoyed them. And I played a bunch of FFXIV. Crisis Core FFVII is probably my favorite  FF because of the story. And I actually bought FFXV day 1. So don't you go tell me im not a FF fan, I'm just not a mindless fan. And if anything, I'm 100% sure you haven't even played the Witcher 3 because it's obvious you just hate WRPG.

That last sentence is just embarrasing and wrong. The Witcher 3 has a clear cut story. The Witcher also has better quests than FFXV, by 100x. FFXV quests are filled with fetch quests or barely have any story at all.

And the difference between FFXV and Witcher 3 world is Witcher 3 is condensed and filled with things to do while FFXV is open and barren. That was one of the worst parts of FFXV, I was driving and running so much, filled with nothing. 



"There is only one race, the pathetic begging race"

Around the Network

Yeah, sorry, beside being gross generalization, it's pretty much apples and oranges - Nier's combat is something that would instantly turn me away from WRPG...Witcher 3 has pretty decent combat, especially for the genre it is.

But it's matter of taste in the end - for example I find Dark Souls to have pretty average combat system (though I'm quite fond of the games) and much prefer something like Severance: Blade of Darkness.



Ruler said:
Ali_16x said:

The Witcher 3 has more soul than most JRPG i've played, the world and quests are amazing, they feel alive. Unfortunately, that was something I noticed with FFXV, the world didn't feel that alive. 

I agree with this thread though, that the Witcher 3 combat was eh.

i gurantee you people will talk more about FFXV in 10 years than the Witcher 3, just like one talks about the Witcher 1 and 2 while many people still talk about FXIII and FFXII today

You can't be serious? The general consensus only talks about FFXIII because of how shit it was. and you're only really looking at an online perspective. 



https://www.trueachievements.com/gamercards/SliferCynDelta.png%5B/IMG%5D">https://www.trueachievements.com/gamer/SliferCynDelta"><img src="https://www.trueachievements.com/gamercards/SliferCynDelta.png

Lawlight said:
MTZehvor said:

Then I seriously feel bad for whatever button you used to reload checkpoints.

The game itself isn't hard - cheap and boring, sure.

Setting aside the irrelevant commentary on the game's quality, there are numerous bosses towards the end deliberately designed to punish button mashing (i.e. Sundowner, where simply rushing up and mashing the attack buttons will result in you eating explosive shield, or a more spoilery example that comes equipped with a counter and command grab). The game is by no means difficult, at least on normal difficulty, but it's not a game you can simply beat by button mashing without giving the reload checkpoint option a serious workout. 



This sad state of combat in western games has been known for decades.
How about character design in western games, a little generic...anyone else noticed?



I cannot imagine toilet-free life.

Kebabs have a unique attribute compared to other consumables. To unlock this effect you need to wolf down a big ass kebab really fast, like under 10 minutes or so and wait for the effect to kick in. If done correctly your movements should feel unbelievably heavy to the point where you literally cannot move at all.

-Downtown Alanya Kebab magazine issue no.198

Around the Network
Ruler said:
Ali_16x said:

Lmao what? No one talks about FFXII and people talk about FFXIII because it's a shit game. So I'm not sure how that's proving your point.

And as someone whose played both FFXV and The Witcher 3, and whose a fan of Final Fantasy and JRPG, The Witcher 3 is a better game. FFXV was disappointing as fuck because I expected a story, yet there wasn't one there. And honestly, even then I was excited for the world but that felt empty. The best thing about FFXV were the dungeons. 

And even though I've played FFXV more recently and The Witcher 3 over 9 months ago, I'm still thinking about how beautiful and world was and how engaging the quests were. The quests in FFXV......so meh. A perfect example of a game that didn't need to go open world.

FF was always open world that was the vision since it was made, i doubt youre a FF fan. There was no story in the Witcher 3, you can do alot more in FFXV than in the Witcher 3 this is a fact.

There is a famous saying that applies to text in bold "Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt". Unless your post was satire, you have no idea what you are talking about.



MTZehvor said:
Lawlight said:

The game itself isn't hard - cheap and boring, sure.

Setting aside the irrelevant commentary on the game's quality, there are numerous bosses towards the end deliberately designed to punish button mashing (i.e. Sundowner, where simply rushing up and mashing the attack buttons will result in you eating explosive shield, or a more spoilery example that comes equipped with a counter and command grab). The game is by no means difficult, at least on normal difficulty, but it's not a game you can simply beat by button mashing without giving the reload checkpoint option a serious workout. 

And yet I did without much reloading. Any reloading would be mostly due to Platinum Games wonky design.



I feel like this thread has forgotten about God of War. Isn't that game's whole foundation its combat system? And yeah, Nier looks great, but that comes from Platinum, the kings of action games. Not sure you can draw an east-west distinction from that.



Yeah. It's a pickle.
The common observation is that Japanese games with great combat are focused entirely on the combat, whereas stuff like Witcher, AssCreed, Skyrim, etc. are open world games with tons of mechanics.
But Dark Souls is a big, open world exploration game with rpg elements, etc. and it's combat manages to be simple but intuitive and viscerally rewarding.
But off the top of my head, almost all the buttons on a controller are for combat in Dark Souls, and I can't for the life of me think how you'd do that in Skyrim and still keep all the other functions, so maybe there's merit to that prior argument.
Maybe the problem is western publishers are always trying to appeal to everybody at once, and don't want to make games with such a tight combat focus. There is that upcoming Ubisoft game whose name escapes me. We'll see if that's any good.

It's also that western games tend to want to be grittier, meaning less bombastic and more 'realistic' combat, and if you ever got into a real sword fight, you'd probably find it's not that much fun. But again, Dark Souls tends to be pretty grounded with its suite of movements.



Lawlight said:
MTZehvor said:

Setting aside the irrelevant commentary on the game's quality, there are numerous bosses towards the end deliberately designed to punish button mashing (i.e. Sundowner, where simply rushing up and mashing the attack buttons will result in you eating explosive shield, or a more spoilery example that comes equipped with a counter and command grab). The game is by no means difficult, at least on normal difficulty, but it's not a game you can simply beat by button mashing without giving the reload checkpoint option a serious workout. 

And yet I did without much reloading. Any reloading would be mostly due to Platinum Games wonky design.

Then I am going to conclude that you did not engage in nearly as much button mashing as you claim to.