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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Digital Foundry: Nintendo Switch CPU and GPU clock speeds revealed

twintail said:
spemanig said:

Of course it is. They literally said they they haven't supported Nintendo because of power, they said they the Switch demo was the most impressive they've ever seen, and the Skyrim being featured is the remastered version, which isn't possible on last gen-level hardware.

With From, the rumor from Laura Kate Dale is that they have DS3 running at a satisfactory level on the Switch, and they were another dev who were very vocal about not putting the Souls series on Nintendo hardware specifically. Since they are confirmed to be working on the Switch, that's likely the game. That's current gen.

We are obviously not getting the entire picture. That list is specifically for partners, which means they are developing for it. I don't remember any dev on the Wii U image that didn't.

lol please

Sure the yare not lying, but the Switch is strong enough to play a port of a 5 year old game. A game that runs natively at 4k on PS4 (a pretty obvious sign of the lack of  capability needed for the game). And that is all. When they start showing off stuff like Fallout 4 then maybe we can look past taking their words at face value. 

And we have no idea what Todd Howard was impressed by anyway. Maybe it was just that the Switch could work in both dock and undocked modes.  

And how often do From Software actually release a game without technical issues? Not very often at all.  'Performance they are happy with' is meaningless in this regard. Current gen or not, DS3 is not without frame rate or even frame pacing issues. and they have had those issues for the entire series more or less. 

 

i am totally with you that JAN is where we can truly have these sort of conversations. But as it stands, Skyrim and the talk of Dark Souls 3 is not the strong evidence you make it out to be. on the contrary, they do nothing to support a strong Switch or even deny the weaker specs offered by Digital Foundry.

Switch is strong enough to play the remastered port of Skyrim, with higher quality assets that systems with the specs being speculated for the Switch could not run.

Switch isn't the first portable device to output to TV, and it's not the first to be powerful enough to run last gen software, so that being the reason it was "the most impressing demo he'd ever seen" isn't likely. His problem with Nintendo was power. He was explicit.

Think about what you're saying. DS3 has technical issues on current gen hardware. It should be damn near impossible to get the game running even equally as porely on the Switch given the rumored specs. If running at 20-30 fps is what they consider acceptable on PS4/XBO, they aren't going to suddenly lower that to 10-20fps. It's going to remain the same. Of course DS3 has technical issues. That doesn't mean that From Soft are tech illiterate idiots that can't tell when a port is running up to their own standards.

I never said they deny the specs offered by DF, I said there's obviously more to this. Again, DF only offered clock speeds, which doesn't offer the full picture, and what we know from the full picture from From and Bethesda suggests that the way people are interpreting those numbers isn't in line with where the Switch actually is.



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This could become larger than the butt-tread



haqqaton said:
Goodnightmoon said:

Is actually hard to know exactly how much powerful it is going only by he numers we have, but what I understand from what I read is that Switch will slightly outperform WiiU when undocked and be around x3 times the power of WiiU when docked, but more info is still required since we don't really know for exemple how customized the Nvidia chip is or how much Ram the OS will use.

After seeing some OpenGL vs Vulkan comparisons and considering that Switch supports Vulkan and that Vulkan is great for ARM mobile chips like Tegra X1, I think we can be confident to say that Switch, even undocked, will be fairly better than Wii U. To be fair, they are comparing Vulkan to OpenGL|ES in the videos below but I think that the point stands.

 

Well it is supposed to be their next gen system, but by how much is the question



spemanig said:
twintail said:

lol please

Sure the yare not lying, but the Switch is strong enough to play a port of a 5 year old game. A game that runs natively at 4k on PS4 (a pretty obvious sign of the lack of  capability needed for the game). And that is all. When they start showing off stuff like Fallout 4 then maybe we can look past taking their words at face value. 

And we have no idea what Todd Howard was impressed by anyway. Maybe it was just that the Switch could work in both dock and undocked modes.  

And how often do From Software actually release a game without technical issues? Not very often at all.  'Performance they are happy with' is meaningless in this regard. Current gen or not, DS3 is not without frame rate or even frame pacing issues. and they have had those issues for the entire series more or less. 

 

i am totally with you that JAN is where we can truly have these sort of conversations. But as it stands, Skyrim and the talk of Dark Souls 3 is not the strong evidence you make it out to be. on the contrary, they do nothing to support a strong Switch or even deny the weaker specs offered by Digital Foundry.

Switch is strong enough to play the remastered port of Skyrim, with higher quality assets that systems with the specs being speculated for the Switch could not run.

Switch isn't the first portable device to output to TV, and it's not the first to be powerful enough to run last gen software, so that being the reason it was "the most impressing demo he'd ever seen" isn't likely. His problem with Nintendo was power. He was explicit.

Think about what you're saying. DS3 has technical issues on current gen hardware. It should be damn near impossible to get the game running even equally as porely on the Switch given the rumored specs. If running at 20-30 fps is what they consider acceptable on PS4/XBO, they aren't going to suddenly lower that to 10-20fps. It's going to remain the same. Of course DS3 has technical issues. That doesn't mean that From Soft are tech illiterate idiots that can't tell when a port is running up to their own standards.

I never said they deny the specs offered by DF, I said there's obviously more to this. Again, DF only offered clock speeds, which doesn't offer the full picture, and what we know from the full picture from From and Bethesda suggests that the way people are interpreting those numbers isn't in line with where the Switch actually is.

Link to official confirmation that not only is Skyrim confirmed, but the special edition of it.



bigtakilla said:
spemanig said:

Switch is strong enough to play the remastered port of Skyrim, with higher quality assets that systems with the specs being speculated for the Switch could not run.

Switch isn't the first portable device to output to TV, and it's not the first to be powerful enough to run last gen software, so that being the reason it was "the most impressing demo he'd ever seen" isn't likely. His problem with Nintendo was power. He was explicit.

Think about what you're saying. DS3 has technical issues on current gen hardware. It should be damn near impossible to get the game running even equally as porely on the Switch given the rumored specs. If running at 20-30 fps is what they consider acceptable on PS4/XBO, they aren't going to suddenly lower that to 10-20fps. It's going to remain the same. Of course DS3 has technical issues. That doesn't mean that From Soft are tech illiterate idiots that can't tell when a port is running up to their own standards.

I never said they deny the specs offered by DF, I said there's obviously more to this. Again, DF only offered clock speeds, which doesn't offer the full picture, and what we know from the full picture from From and Bethesda suggests that the way people are interpreting those numbers isn't in line with where the Switch actually is.

Link to official confirmation that not only is Skyrim confirmed, but the special edition of it.

Oh, we are definitely not doing this.



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bigtakilla said:
haqqaton said:

After seeing some OpenGL vs Vulkan comparisons and considering that Switch supports Vulkan and that Vulkan is great for ARM mobile chips like Tegra X1, I think we can be confident to say that Switch, even undocked, will be fairly better than Wii U. To be fair, they are comparing Vulkan to OpenGL|ES in the videos below but I think that the point stands.

 

Well it is supposed to be their next gen system, but by how much is the question

I believe/hope that it could be by a large margin. The CPU utilization looks amazing on Vulkan. It'll preserve battery and keep the system running cooler while getting higher FPS than OpenGL. On top of that, Switch is capable of FP16 too that can help with some less precise calculations utilizing fewer resources. Wii U didn't have any of these features (and a lot of others).

I'm a bit skeptical yet I believe that undocked Switch will be confortably ahead of Wii U.



Captain_Yuri said:
fleischr said:
It's sad to say that I'm not surprised... by the meltdowns here...

The specs on their own, while I wish they could be better to accommodate *all* 3rd party games without exception, are still rather good. It's really like a far more portable WiiU with extra home console power -- that alone I like

I gotta wonder how many devs will continue to do 720p/low-end skews that fit the Switch hardware. I'm sure many devs do that for the low-end PC gamer crowd and Vita folk, but they move on at some point.

I think at this point, they can't actually port their games but rather remake them just for the switch if they want it on the Switch.

The docked mode isn't the main issue although granted its still not that great. The portable mode is the main issue because every game must be made to run in portable mode which is rumored to be at 157 or so Gflops according to neogaf. I doubt devs will be able to make a game exclusively for the docked mode since the main gimmick is to be able to play it anywhere. So devs will be looking at the 157 or so Gflops in performance first and then enhancing it after rather than looking at the docked mode first since the bottleneck will be the portable mode.

But either ways, as Pachter said in his recent ep, publishers make about $36 or so with each retail copy sold. If the Switch is powerful enough to handle ports, the publishers can spend about 5 million (in his example) to port the games. (36 x 500,000 sales = 18 million = profit) But if they have to make the games from ground up due to it not being powerful enough, they would have to spend 40 million in his example which wouldn't be worth it for them. ($36 x 1 million sales = 36 million = no profit since it costed 40 million to develop for the Switch). And that excludes marketing and etc.

So idk if there will be very many third party games at all from the western front. I mean, did we hear any rumors about any modern ports yet apart from like not very intensive games such as Just Dance?

I think it's decided at this point that Switch's AAA 3rd party support comes via streaming. I mean that's the angle Shield devices took before, so why not have it in the Switch?

Nvidia has the tech to leverage an extra system like a PC, a cloud system, or even external GPUs.

I figure Switch could have success with this model if the streaming options are simple and affordable. The way gamers really play games these days - it can be a better value to both publishers and gamers if they just pay a Netflix-like subscription fee for either a specific game or curated collection of games.



I predict NX launches in 2017 - not 2016

haqqaton said:
Goodnightmoon said:

Is actually hard to know exactly how much powerful it is going only by he numers we have, but what I understand from what I read is that Switch will slightly outperform WiiU when undocked and be around x3 times the power of WiiU when docked, but more info is still required since we don't really know for exemple how customized the Nvidia chip is or how much Ram the OS will use.

After seeing some OpenGL vs Vulkan comparisons and considering that Switch supports Vulkan and that Vulkan is great for ARM mobile chips like Tegra X1, I think we can be confident to say that Switch, even undocked, will be fairly better than Wii U. To be fair, they are comparing Vulkan to OpenGL|ES in the videos below but I think that the point stands.

 

That is completely irrelevant. The new low-level APIs are an improvement just for PCs and mobile phones, that relied for far too long in APIs with high overhead, like DirectX (pre-12) and OpenGL. Consoles always had their custom, low level APIs.

Some of them actually supported DX (like Xbox) and OpenGL, but that was only an option for devs that did not cared about performance. 99% of the games are developed for the low-level APIs. Engines like Unity and Unreal also use these APIs.

It's like saying that the PS4 GPU supports DirectX. It does, but it is useless for the console.



Goodnightmoon said:
Turkish said:
How does this compare to the Wii U? As powerful or not?

Is actually hard to know exactly how much powerful it is going only by he numbers we have, but what I understand from what I read is that Switch will slightly outperform WiiU when undocked and be around x3 times the power of WiiU when docked, but more info is still required since we don't really know for exemple how customized the Nvidia chip is or how much Ram the OS will use.

It's actually around twice Wii U performance when undocked going by the specs rumours are giving.



What happends when 2019-2020 comes around and Playstation 5 is like 10 Teraflops though?
By that time the Switch will look really dated.... or does power & graphics just not matter at all to nintendo?