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Forums - Politics - So, TPP is not going to happen.

 

Is getting rid of the TPP good?

Yes 81 68.07%
 
No 19 15.97%
 
Meh... 3 2.52%
 
Don't know enough to form a concise opinion 16 13.45%
 
Total:119
Soundwave said:

 

Business is not going to just say "OK, no TPP so we're not doing business here", it just means that China will gladly take their business and I'm sure they're quite happy to see the US potentially out.  

I think you are missing the point here though.  USA is currently the most lucrative consumer market in the world.  Once China can lift its people out of jobs making less than 300-400 a month (for respectable jobs, probably even less for lower jobs) then they perhaps will be the largest market.  For now though it is the USA and I don't think any country will stop doing trade with the USA and especially not China.  So how is it that all the other countries will just look to trade with China now and forget about USA.  I don't see that happening ever.



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Lawlight said:
palou said:

Again, as I mentionned, corporations can only sue governments for being impartial, discriminatory depending on country of origin. You can ban smoking; you can't ban all European cigarette brands from competing, while allowing your own cigarette companies to prosper. You can put a carbon tax; you can't put a carbon tax on all foreign corporations, while imposing none on your own buisnesses. It's just a way to assure that trade truly stays free.

I'm pretty sure TTIP is going that way, if that makes you happy.

That's not true. Corporations can sue for pretty much anything that they deem would affect their bottom line. A good example of what would have happened is how tobacco companies are suing Australia for the plain packaging act. How is that discriminatory? It's not and yet they're still suing Australia. This is underr another trade treaty (AU and HK) but it would be similar.

If I remember correctly, that lawsuit failed, as well as a lawsuite by Phillip Morris to stop anti-smoking regulations in Uruguay. The court responsible for this deal has made logical decisions untill now, also making companies pay up for fraudulent lawsuites.

 

also, the one in australia used a really, really strange clause from a very old trade agreement (can't take possesion of a hk brand or something like that) which simply does not exist in the current deals.



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People are not against Free Trade.

They want free trade that are not secret deals that benefit the 1%.

Btw I am not a socialist lol



They'll just renamed it and try to get it passed again.



Mystro-Sama said:
They'll just renamed it and try to get it passed again.

That will be difficult. Canceling the deal will give China time to push its agreement. (Read OP on that)



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LadyJasmine said:
People are not against Free Trade.

They want free trade that are not secret deals that benefit the 1%.

Btw I am not a socialist lol

As said, the deal hasn't been secret anymore since quite some time, and for the US, there isn't much new in there that's all too shady or corporatiat (as said in the OP - the clause that corporations can stop environnemental/health/safety laws is a myth.)



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

WolfpackN64 said:
sethnintendo said:

Helps people in other countries.  They could pay an average worker here about 10-30 dollars a hour for a job they do but if they go to Mexico then they can pay them 2-5 dollars a hour for the same job. 

As for helping USA manufacturing jobs?  The only thing they are trying to do now is go more automation and have a few people instead of a lot of people on a line.  Have a couple of operators if any and a few technicians and engineers to look after the machines.

But these companies already made enough profits. Why did they leave? To get more profits.

The problem in this equasion is capitalism.

The quest to automate all jobs is what will ultimately lead to a less capitalistic and more socialistic.ish/communistic-ish society though. You should be applauding it. In the long term, there is no way a shrinking working population can still lead to growth in demand. (And the working population will decrease. Guaranteed.)

The only way that benefits humans at all in such a society where robots/computers/AI can do every task better and more efficient than any human, is a program with basic income where the society owns (at least a big part of) the means of production together, with money being distributed among everyone. People are then free to choose what they want to spend it on.



The sun rises in the east. The west is digging it's own grave right now with all that nationalist bullshit. If they keep on with this, Americas status as a superpower will be gone in about a decade or so. Prepare for a new world order with russia and china as our new leaders. And don't even think about complaining. We brought this upon ourselves, nobody else but us to blame.

Get a hold of yourself now or live with the consequences in the future. You can't stop globalization. If the US and the EU decide to pull out, somebody else will take their place and they'll be very happy to do it.



唯一無二のRolStoppableに認められた、VGCの任天堂ファミリーの正式メンバーです。光栄に思います。

America as a superpower is on the decline

free trade or not



Teeqoz said:
WolfpackN64 said:

But these companies already made enough profits. Why did they leave? To get more profits.

The problem in this equasion is capitalism.

The quest to automate all jobs is what will ultimately lead to a less capitalistic and more socialistic.ish/communistic-ish society though. You should be applauding it. In the long term, there is no way a shrinking working population can still lead to growth in demand. (And the working population will decrease. Guaranteed.)

The only way that benefits humans at all in such a society where robots/computers/AI can do every task better and more efficient than any human, is a program with basic income where the society owns (at least a big part of) the means of production together, with money being distributed among everyone. People are then free to choose what they want to spend it on.

Not if those machines would be in the hands of the few, keeping most profits to themselves. A base income could be a good idea, but not at the cost of social programs.