That's a great point. If VR doesn't take off (the horrible prices and lack of AAA support isn't helping!), then this kind of mid-gen 'meh' combo'd with being hamstrung by garbage-tier baseline hardware is going to stagnate the console space. Whatever consoles replace PS4P/Scorpio might just be met with 'meh', particularly if they are also forced to have all games be FC/BC to the 2013 hardware in the year 2020-2021.

*if* they decide to add Backwards compatibility for there next system. Its like a gamble every gen. Also theres nothing wrong with making games for a larger audience or more system specs. Again PCs have been doing it long ago. Having games scale with hardware is alot better than being forced to upgrade every gen.

Why not just go the whole hog and have upgradeable RAM and GPUs?

the second you and everyone else looking at the PS4pro/scorpio stop looking at them as nothing more than slight upgrades of the PS4/XB1 8th gen consoles the better for everyone.

The PS4pro is JUST a PS4 that gives you slightly better performance. Allows you make the most of your 4k Tv or gives a better expericne on a 1080p tv.

Get this, and this is the most important part. THE GAMES ARE EXACTLY THE SAME.

If you are buying a PS4pro over the base PS4, then 4k or at the very least better 1080p must mean enough to you to be willing to spend the extra $100. It really isn't anything more than this.

And as for those issues you are talking about? It's extremely short-sighted of you to draw such conclusions all from launch software. I'll willing to bet that any game releasing after dev/March next year will not have any of the issues we are having right now with the pro. that's just how gaming goes.

And the part I have never quite understood? why do some gamers talk like they have a gun to gbeir head forcing them to do things? Say you bought a $400 PS4 in 2013, or a $350/$300 PS4 in 2015/2016 respectively. And you are perfectly fine with 1080p gaming or whatevee you get from that console. Then the PS4pro is not made for you. You don't have to buy it. You are not even expected to buy it. And it's ok not to buy it. 

When the PS5 comes along, 3-6 years from when ever you got your PS4, if then you decide you want to make the jump then that's all well and good. Someone that buys a $300/$200 PS4 in year 5 of the platforms life isn't going to be buying a PS5 a year later on launch day. See how that works?

But be rest assured, people like me that bought a PS4 2-3yrs ago and was willing to plunk down some more money for a little upgrade? Won't have any issues at all buying a PS5 in 3-4yrs time. 

All this stuff you are saying about waiting just makes zero sense. Cause it really makes no difference at all. If there was only one sku of the PS4 to buy for all of the 6-7yrs before the PS5 is released, it won't stop people from buying the PS5. The way you make it sound is as if all the consoles a platform will ever sell happens in one day. 

Soooooooo, who are the upgrades hurting again? I know a lot of people on here hate consumer choice but this is getting silly.

Pro and Scorpio are something the console space has needed to do for years. It is nice to see it finally happening. The original plan on the PS3 was to add more Cores and SPUs when they went from 90nm to 65nm, and on and on, but due to the early stumble it never came to fruition.

Now we get to see bumps at each die shrink, along with the usual slim models. This is amazing for someone that wants to stay in one ecosystem. Now I can count on an upgraded PS system every two to four years, and know that I always have an option to pick up the latest tech. This is what I have always wanted from consoles. I love the closed box ecosystem, and I will be supporting both the Scorpio and the Pro, because this is the way I want the market to go.

As for waiting for 2018 or something like that. You guys are not in touch with the reality of the situation. A console built on 7nm Tech even in 2020 is not going to deliver any significant improvement over PS4 and XBO. All you are going to see is a resolution boost, and added eye candy. New consoles are not going to change the core game for a long long time.

What? Even at 14nm, CPUs based on AMD Zen's reported performance level would have a ludicrous advantage over the pathetic glorified 8-core netbook garbage that Jaguar is, at 1.6Ghz to add insult to injury.

"AMD isn't yet discussing Zen's target clockspeed, but some leaked benchmarks last week purported to show an 8C/16T Zen engineering sample clocked at 2.8GHz base/3.2GHz turbo—which is pretty impressive when you consider that engineering samples are often clocked significantly lower than retail parts. I don't want to get my hopes up just yet, but the benchmarks did appear to show pretty decent performance for the Zen chip."

What does that mean? Well, examining the IPC of Jaguar vs. other CPUs in the record from Anandtech, and extrapolating (Jaguar single core vs Sandy Bridge, SB per core vs Broadwell-E, and assign 15% HT boost and appropriate clock speed scaling), the CPU power of a theoretical 3Ghz/3.4Ghz 8C/16T Zen would be WELL OVER 18x faster than the 1.6Ghz Jaguar CPU. EIGHTTEEN TIMES MORE PROCESSING POWER. That's not trivial.

Bottlenecking from CPU for dramatically complex game worlds would be insanely reduced. AI could be dramatically more free. FPS caps in MP without having to be hamstrung by the trash Jaguar products would enable almost universal 60FPS if combined with a respectable GPU as well (Scorpio will come fairly close, but the reported performance target is slightly under the ideal).

Not to mention that being stuck with 8GB RAM is highly restrictive as well. It sounded really impressive in 2013, but if that is the limit due to having to constantly dev to the lowest common denominator, that means 4-5GB (non-OS locked) is the total VRAM+Game executables that is available for design, outside of the extra 4GB on Scorpio, which of course won't be freed for exclusive game development anyway to appease the people that want the aging 2013 models to have parity.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/08/amd-zen-performance-details-release-date/

I'm not sure people completely understand how terrible Jaguar is. It barely outperforms one of the most legendarily terrible processors of all time : the Intel Atom, and LOSES in IPC to the 2006 Conroe. It's THAT bad.

I honestly wouldnt see the problem with that method at all.

Great points for releasing next gen consoles! Still waiting though for arguments against releasing a mid gen upgrade.