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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo Switch could keep evolving with Nvidia Tegra just like PS4 and PS4 Pro

JEMC said:

In two-three years the 10nm process will be already on the market, and that could allow Nintendo/Nvidia to pack more shaders (of the same architecture) paired with newer ARM cores while keeping the same overall power envelope.

10nm already is on the market to OEMs, in fact is moving to it's 2nd stage.  By the Switch launch date it should be quite viable to use.
If Nintendo does not choose to use it, it is simply down to cheapness and aversion to cutting edge tech.
Switch is already known to be custom silicon, with totally different GPU than X2 (originally announced as 16nm).

IMHO I don't expect more CPU cores, simply because programmers have been unable to fully leverage so many cores.
That is what happened to PS3, and likewise we don't see Nintendo going for more cores than Xbone/PS4 despite years of progress in arch/fab... Likewise for Scorpio.
Obviously GPUs are another story than CPUs.

I don't see the big deal on AMD vs. NVIDIA GPUs here, obviously the latest of either is better than older gen stuff (ala OG Xbone/PS4).
AMD's architecture is great at new features as seen in DX12 and that is what consoles are leveraging as well.
All in all, I don't see some big story out of Nintendo/NVIDIA collaboration here, if it does well certainly expect an "update" of arch, nothing new there.



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At this point that is all the companies want to do with hardware. Every few years we will see new iterations from all three companies.



Scisca said:

Lol. Loool. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, do you? Let me remind you that a console isn't just the GPU, but also the CPU. Both are important and it's far and away cheapest and most convenient, when they come on one chip, from one manufacturer. Now that you've learned that, look at this simple graph:

Intel - great CPU, shitty GPU <- pricey
nVidia - shitty CPU, great GPU <- pricey
AMD - great CPU (Zen), great GPU <- reasonably priced

Nuff said. AMD isn't going anywhere when it comes to home consoles, as it has no viable competition whatsoever. It's the only company out there, that can offer both the CPU and GPU which perform well enough for home consoles' needs. The only reason Nintendo went with nVidia is because AMD has nothing to offer for the handheld market, while nVidia has the Tegra. But when it comes to homeconsoles, no company can compete with AMD. If Sony/MS went with nVidia GPU, what CPU would they put in the console? Tegra? That would be a joke of a console and an instantly lost generation for the company that went this way. AMD is the only company that brings to table all that's needed in one sexy package, nVidia can't compete even if it wanted to. The Switch being a handheld is a blessing that allowed them to remain present outside the PC market.

Nah you don't say a console is more than a GPU, considering the CPU in PS4 and X1 are eseentially chips that normally are in mobile I don't think you really can boast about great CPUs for consoles in that regard, considering the debate is about GPUs that's a bit null and void as well.

You act like MS and Sony have never opted to utilize different companies for components, 360 from Gen7 did it just fine, companies will go with they feel is best, AMD being convenient doesn't lock the console market to them.



mutantsushi said:
JEMC said:

In two-three years the 10nm process will be already on the market, and that could allow Nintendo/Nvidia to pack more shaders (of the same architecture) paired with newer ARM cores while keeping the same overall power envelope.

10nm already is on the market to OEMs, in fact is moving to it's 2nd stage.  By the Switch launch date it should be quite viable to use.
If Nintendo does not choose to use it, it is simply down to cheapness and aversion to cutting edge tech.
Switch is already known to be custom silicon, with totally different GPU than X2 (originally announced as 16nm).

IMHO I don't expect more CPU cores, simply because programmers have been unable to fully leverage so many cores.
That is what happened to PS3, and likewise we don't see Nintendo going for more cores than Xbone/PS4 despite years of progress in arch/fab... Likewise for Scorpio.
Obviously GPUs are another story than CPUs.

I don't see the big deal on AMD vs. NVIDIA GPUs here, obviously the latest of either is better than older gen stuff (ala OG Xbone/PS4).
AMD's architecture is great at new features as seen in DX12 and that is what consoles are leveraging as well.
All in all, I don't see some big story out of Nintendo/NVIDIA collaboration here, if it does well certainly expect an "update" of arch, nothing new there.

I read that TSMC was going to bring 10nm by the end of this year with volume production in 2017, but after the fiascos they got with the latest node transitions, I don't know if that's still true or there have been delays.

In any case, 10nm right now would be more expensive and with lower yields than 16nm, so Nintendo will probably avoid it right now.

About the ARM cores, I didn't mean to say that they would put more cores into the hypothetical Switch revision, but replace the existing ones with newer and more efficient cores. The standard Tegra X2 comes with 2xDenver 2 and 4xA57 cores. We don't know if Nintendo's customisation has changed that configuration (they could have gotten rid of one or two of the A57 cores to put some fixed instructions, like they did with the Wii U processor), but a revision could see the A57 cores replaced by newer processors for more performance but also increased efficiency.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

Wyrdness said:
Scisca said:

Lol. Loool. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, do you? Let me remind you that a console isn't just the GPU, but also the CPU. Both are important and it's far and away cheapest and most convenient, when they come on one chip, from one manufacturer. Now that you've learned that, look at this simple graph:

Intel - great CPU, shitty GPU <- pricey
nVidia - shitty CPU, great GPU <- pricey
AMD - great CPU (Zen), great GPU <- reasonably priced

Nuff said. AMD isn't going anywhere when it comes to home consoles, as it has no viable competition whatsoever. It's the only company out there, that can offer both the CPU and GPU which perform well enough for home consoles' needs. The only reason Nintendo went with nVidia is because AMD has nothing to offer for the handheld market, while nVidia has the Tegra. But when it comes to homeconsoles, no company can compete with AMD. If Sony/MS went with nVidia GPU, what CPU would they put in the console? Tegra? That would be a joke of a console and an instantly lost generation for the company that went this way. AMD is the only company that brings to table all that's needed in one sexy package, nVidia can't compete even if it wanted to. The Switch being a handheld is a blessing that allowed them to remain present outside the PC market.

Nah you don't say a console is more than a GPU, considering the CPU in PS4 and X1 are eseentially chips that normally are in mobile I don't think you really can boast about great CPUs for consoles in that regard, considering the debate is about GPUs that's a bit null and void as well.

You act like MS and Sony have never opted to utilize different companies for components, 360 from Gen7 did it just fine, companies will go with they feel is best, AMD being convenient doesn't lock the console market to them.

Scorpio is rumoured to have an 8-core Zen CPU. Trust me, you won't find such a thing in mobile. Xbone and PS4 are bottlenecked by their CPUs, but that's partially because AMD had inferior tech in the past. With the new generation of CPUs, they'll be able to push consoles that much further - and still, nVidia isn't even in the same ballpark when it comes to CPU performance as the old AMD CPUs. Doesn't matter what the debate is about, the CPU part makes your speculations null and void.

Sure. Many strange things were done in the past, in the PS2 era a console being unfriendly for developers and hard to write games for was seen as a good thing. Sony could get an nVidia GPU and tell IBM to make a Cell 2 and make the PS5 costs $1000 to manufacture again. But guess who'd win that generation if MS went for cheap off-the-shelf SoC parts from AMD? Competition may always arise, but as for now - there is no company remotely close to being a viable alternative. Especially not when Polaris is on par with Pascal and Zen is in the same ballpark as Skylake. AMD is at a really high point right now, it'll take a very strong effort to take the home console market away from them.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.