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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo is committing a lot of the same lethal mistakes they did with the WiiU, and more.

KLXVER said:
thismeintiel said:
Well, it's Nintendo.  So Nintendo fans will give them a pass, even if later it doesn't pay off.  Can't believe we were hearing nothing about the great 3rd party support the NX was going to get before it was revealed, and yet now that it seems like some devs are taking a wait and see approach, we are seeing the same things from the Wii U launch.  Including the crazy sales predictions.  "Oh, it'll sell 100M."  "Who needs X dev or Y publisher?" "It's not coming to NS? Who cares."  "Their lose."  "I didn't even want that game."  It's like they never learn.

That is what many huge fans of a product does though. They only see the positive side. Nothing new here.

Eh, to an extent.  I have noticed it works differently for different sets of fans.  Generally, I have seen plenty of Sony/PS4 fans talk poorly about something Sony has done.  Sure, they may disregard some of the smaller things, but some of the medium/larger things are definitely addressed.  I remember plenty of Sony fans disliking the PS+ policy of this gen.  And even some who didn't think it was that big a deal, like myself, still said they understood why people wouldn't like it or may affect their decision.  Some policies fans have actually taken to Sony and got them changed.

Nintendo fans, on the other hand, seem to be completely optimistic when Nintendo ever shows a new piece of HW.  Doesn't matter the 3rd party support, the graphical power, or marketing (or lack thereof on any of these), they dismiss it.  Even bashing companies who decide to not support the console, acting like they or their games don't matter to anyone and the lack of those games won't have any poor affect on its sales.  Posting about how it'll sell gangbusters, anyway.  And this is before we even have a price for the thing.  I understand being excited about new HW, but this is a whole other level.  Only when it fails to sell do they actually start to look back and criticize the steps that Nintendo took or failed to take, only for it to be ignored the next time.

Granted, these are just my general observations and not everyone always fall into those categories.



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I don't know. I actually think the Nintendo Switch is the complete opposite of the Wii U. The introduction and marketing is much better. Unlike the Wii U, people actually knew what the Switch was before the trailer ended. Switch also most likely won't suffer from the Wii U's drought since Nintendo no longer has to divide their efforts between a separate handhelds and home consoles. So even if third parties were to abandon the system, it wouldn't be as bad as the Wii U. The only problem it might have is being underpowered. Even so, if a main series Pokemon games ends up on Switch, people won't care about specs.



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GoOnKid said:

Yup, I think that's it. The numbered consoles make it very easy to understand that a 4 is higher than a 3 and therefore better. And by naming all consoles the same, the brand has had 20 years of drilling itself into the consumers' head while NIntendo names each console differently, safe for Wii/Wii U, and we all know what happened. Having said that, giving the new console the name Switch has the function of diversification on one hand but the risk of losing a connection on the other. But then again, as soon as Mario's face is shown, everyone knows what's up, so maybe this problem isn't all that big. Personally, I would wish they threw the word "Nintendo" around as often as they can, too, in order to set an anchor in the consumers' heads next to Mario's face.

Well, the Super NES having the same name as the NES didn't exactly stop it from selling around half of its predecessor.

oniyide said:

Ninty's been lacking in 3rd party since N64, why people think this was going to change is beyond me. Its not just power being an issue. Ninty is simply NOT going to do the things that Sony and MS have and are willing to do to get those games. You think Ninty gonna play the moneyhat game? I doubt it, would love to be wrong.

It's not always about moneyhatting.  Sometimes it's about freedom and technical aid that Sony and MS (as of this gen) deliver to their devs/pubs.  Nintendo themselves had trouble pumping games out onto the Wii U.  Do you think they were in any position to help any other devs who may have been having issues with the HW?  Hardly.  And Nintendo has been notorious for not listening to 3rd parties about what would be best for their HW or features they would like, instead demanding devs adhere to whatever HW they were going to make (a mistake Sony also made with the PS3.)  Some of their policies weren't the best, either.  It's what caused quite a few devs/pubs to jump ship during the 16 bit era, as Sega was more engaged with 3rd parties and had better policies/fees.  And when the PS came around, and Nintendo stubbornly stuck with expensive cartridges, many devs/pubs bailed completely.  While I'm sure Nintendo's policies have gotten better over the years, their stubborness about doing things their way is still shown in their lack of 3rd party support.



bananaking21 said:

The Dust is starting to settle of the Nintendo Switch announcement. And its pretty clear Nintendo hasnt learnt much after the horrendous WiiU Reveal.

 

- The Trailer certainly gives a better idea about what the NX is, much more than the WiiU trailer did. The trailer gives the impression that the NS is a Hybrid system. however, nintendo did say that the docking station only serves to connect the NS to the TV, as well as provide power. basically, the Dock is pretty much a glorified charging station that has an HDMI, Thus resulting it in technicially being a portable. you wouldnt call a PSP a "Hybrid" because you can connect it to a TV with a cable, right? However, one of the issues arises when Nintendo is calling the NS a "home gaming system". even though it technicially isnt.

 

- The first point isnt that bad, its not a huge problem sure. it doesnt really matter what the NS technicially is considered if the consumers like it. but it does show that Nintendo still has a communiction problem, and that these 3 minute trailers are no where near enough to illustrate what their consoles are and what they have to offer. 


- Nintendo then goes on to say that no new information will be given out until next year. Leaving a plethora amount of crucial questions unanswered. which is simply baffling. so many crucial questions go unanswered. for a system that is just 5 months away from launch, the number of question marks circling around the reveal is outstanding.

Taking a look at PS4 reveal, the shortcomings are astronomical in comparison. First and foremost, Sony took the time to explain their vision for their new console, where they believe the market place is heading, where they would like to take it. they explained what type of gamers the PS4 would appeal to. they explained the PS4's specs, what its capable of and what we can expect, they talked about networking features,  they showed their support for devs, both tripple A and indie, and what comes in between. And most importantly they announced games, and many of them.  Nintendo didnt bother to do any of these things. 

 

- This takes us to another point, The Games. What types of games are we expected to play on the NS? how can nintendo reveal a new console, without revealing any games for it? and a massive miscommunication blunder accures here. Skyrim and NBA for both shown for the NS, yet it turns out, both games arent even confirmed for the console. how can this be? How can Nintendo show off this console with games that arent even confirmed for the system yet? chances are they are coming to the system, yes. but the fact that nobody can be certain is just mind boggling, and shows a huge in inefficiency at communicating what this system has to offer. whats even more confusing is that they showed off first party games, that arent even confirmed. are mario kart, splatoon and 3D mario new games? are they ports? are they even coming to the system? How can nintendo not have these questions answered?

 

- With the NS, Nintendo seems to have made a similar issue they did with the WiiU. They are making a system that is trying to appeal to everybody, which in return will appeal to nobody. well obviously not nobody nobody, but you get my point. As Nintendo said, NS is supposed to be their next "Home System". But by making it a hybrid, they have lost a crucial aspect that other home systems have. the fact that its a dedicated home system. adding portability to it means that is will be weaker, it will be less capable, and it will be more expensive than it should be, in exchange for offering a feature that dedicated console gamers dont want or really need. does that ring a bell? if not, ill spill it out for you. its one of the main issues the WiiU had. 


And the same logic goes for the portable gaming consumer. The system is more expenisve, has less portability, and will have a weaker battery life. and whats baffling here is not did Nintendo not learn from their mistakes, they also didnt learn from Sony's with the Vita. consumers dont really want AAA and home console gaming experiences on the go. 


My rant can go on for even longer than it already is. but to try and cut it a bit, lets see how many unanswered questions there are about the NS. How powerfull is the NS? what games are on it? What games can we expect at launch? whats the price? how much storage does it have? does it support HDR? what kind of network features does it have? does it have virtual console support? does it have apps like netflix and youtube? is the screen a touch screen? how long is the batter life? how big is the screen? Does it support external hard drives? what type of screen does it have? 

 

As it stands now, Nintendo is just selling us the concept, not the product itself. and considering that the NS is releasing in roughly 5 months, that is concerning to say the least. And Nintendos refusal to even talk about their console is not only puzzling, but out right stupid. Nintendo seems to be a company that refuses to learn from its mistakes, and the mistakes done by others. 

You are the same guy who said NX will be DOA, yeah Nintendoom



Nintendo learned alot from previous mistakes , also it's a Damn teaser trailer . Like some others have stated , also at the full reveal is when u will get all your way too long and ranting dribble info cleared up.



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The way I see it, there's really no point in reveling all the details yet; there's really no harm in doing it or not doing it now; the details matter to us but not the mainstream audience.

If my work experience has taught me something (I'm a software developer but I've work on marketing related projects) is that people have extremely short memory in things they are not passionate about or only mildly interested in.

Think about it this way, one random guy watches the trailer and says: "hey this is really cool!" and then in the next couple of days he forgets about it completely until launch or sees another add on TV or whatever; so, whenever that random guy sees a new trailer (most likely near lunch) or an add he will say: "oh! that's the cool tablet I saw a few months back!" and that has more impact than watching it for the first time.

The point I'm trying to make is that slowly showing your product to the general public has more impact in the long run than doing it the first time near launch; this creates hype without the people really knowing it, is basically a marketing strategy in a way. And for the general public (not us gaming forum dwellers), all this little details about specs, battery life, games, etc don't matter much; they matter close to launch but certainly not now.

Everyone is thinking about in the mindset of us "gamers", because we saw the trailer a few days back and we want to know everything about it now, because for most of us gaming is our main hobby; but for the general public (the ones that truly matter really), this trailer does what Nintendo wants it to do, it creates expectation, it creates a positive image and when Nintendo shows more info near launch, if it is still good as the first trailer, then people will jump more easily.

However, the most important thing is how good marketing and word of mouth is near launch, that's what makes or breaks a system.



Nintendo and PC gamer

I agree with most of your points, except the last point. There's nothing wrong with trying to appeal both handheld and console users. More options to the customer are always better.

But i really hope nintendo get it right:
- Long battery life, quick charger, micro sd support, headphone jack, light weight, and maybe being able to use pro controller on the go: to please handheld fans
- Ssd support, LAN cable+wifi port, at least 1080p res, comfortable controller (also wired controller): to please console fans



thismeintiel said:
KLXVER said:

That is what many huge fans of a product does though. They only see the positive side. Nothing new here.

Eh, to an extent.  I have noticed it works differently for different sets of fans.  Generally, I have seen plenty of Sony/PS4 fans talk poorly about something Sony has done.  Sure, they may disregard some of the smaller things, but some of the medium/larger things are definitely addressed.  I remember plenty of Sony fans disliking the PS+ policy of this gen.  And even some who didn't think it was that big a deal, like myself, still said they understood why people wouldn't like it or may affect their decision.  Some policies fans have actually taken to Sony and got them changed.

Nintendo fans, on the other hand, seem to be completely optimistic when Nintendo ever shows a new piece of HW.  Doesn't matter the 3rd party support, the graphical power, or marketing (or lack thereof on any of these), they dismiss it.  Even bashing companies who decide to not support the console, acting like they or their games don't matter to anyone and the lack of those games won't have any poor affect on its sales.  Posting about how it'll sell gangbusters, anyway.  And this is before we even have a price for the thing.  I understand being excited about new HW, but this is a whole other level.  Only when it fails to sell do they actually start to look back and criticize the steps that Nintendo took or failed to take, only for it to be ignored the next time.

Granted, these are just my general observations and not everyone always fall into those categories.

Parts of your description of Nintendo fans remind me of some Sony fans with regards to the PSVR, a new piece of HW from Sony.



I will say it is a bit sad we're 5 months out and they haven't had that "wow" moment yet. Hopefully it will come in Jan 2017. I mean, we know what the NS is but why is it the option we should be choosing? This comes down to the games. Typically it is the point in reveal where they show a LoZ tech demo that floors everyone (the Wii Us wow moment).

I don't know, maybe it's just me. The NS is a Wii U we can take on the go, but still don't have that "I gotta get this day 1" hype yet. No word about it till next year also sucks.



osed125 said:

The way I see it, there's really no point in reveling all the details yet; there's really no harm in doing it or not doing it now; the details matter to us but not the mainstream audience.

If my work experience has taught me something (I'm a software developer but I've work on marketing related projects) is that people have extremely short memory in things they are not passionate about or only mildly interested in.

Think about it this way, one random guy watches the trailer and says: "hey this is really cool!" and then in the next couple of days he forgets about it completely until launch or sees another add on TV or whatever; so, whenever that random guy sees a new trailer (most likely near lunch) or an add he will say: "oh! that's the cool tablet I saw a few months back!" and that has more impact than watching it for the first time.

The point I'm trying to make is that slowly showing your product to the general public has more impact in the long run than doing it the first time near launch; this creates hype without the people really knowing it, is basically a marketing strategy in a way. And for the general public (not us gaming forum dwellers), all this little details about specs, battery life, games, etc don't matter much; they matter close to launch but certainly not now.

Everyone is thinking about in the mindset of us "gamers", because we saw the trailer a few days back and we want to know everything about it now, because for most of us gaming is our main hobby; but for the general public (the ones that truly matter really), this trailer does what Nintendo wants it to do, it creates expectation, it creates a positive image and when Nintendo shows more info near launch, if it is still good as the first trailer, then people will jump more easily.

However, the most important thing is how good marketing and word of mouth is near launch, that's what makes or breaks a system.

It seems to have worked out with Sony on reveling everything on their event for PS4 but the form of the console and when launching over 6 months later still setting records.



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