By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony Discussion - PS4Pro Can Run At 8.4tf (Eurogamer)

Pemalite on 22 October 2016
GribbleGrunger said:
This is interesting from Engadget:

'He's not exaggerating here either. In a demo this week, he pulled up a scene in Days Gone on two separate Pros and 4K televisions, one of them natively rendered and the other checkerboard upscaled. The images were nearly indistinguishable: The native game was slightly more saturated and the textures in the grass were clearly resolved while the checkerboard grass shimmered slightly in the breeze. However, from three or four feet away, it was nigh impossible to see a difference.'

https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/20/ps4-pro-mark-cerny-interview-hardware/

Well of course Cerny is going to toute such rhetoric. He want's to sell more devices, so he will grab as many straws as he can and run with it.

There is a difference between 4k and Checkerboard, but the difference really depends on your own eyesight, the display and of course, the developers.. It's a stop gap measure, not a replacement for true 4k.

Fei-Hung said:
Basically 4.2TF is the minimum and 8.4TF is the maximum. However, to get 8.4 you will need to make sacrifices in various departments that require heavy coding.

I see indies getting more out of it or less graphic heavy games or maybe games that don't require much physics such as destruction.

A game like Destiny that has pretty much static assets and zero destruction might be able to draw on more performance.

It can also reduce graphics quality.

Soundwave said:
This isn't really a secret breakthrough or anything. The Xbox Scorpio and even the Nintendo Switch will be able to do the same at FP16/32

Precisely.

SvennoJ said:

It's an extra improvement over ps4 which apparently couldn't do it yet
"Finally, there's better support of variables such as half-floats. To date, with the AMD architectures, a half-float would take the same internal space as a full 32-bit float. There hasn't been much advantage to using them. With Polaris though, it's possible to place two half-floats side by side in a register, which means if you're willing to mark which variables in a shader program are fine with 16-bits of storage, you can use twice as many.

But true, Nvidia tegra x1 already supported double speed fp16 and Scorpio will use Polaris as well.

Nintendo switch and PSVR can probably benefit more from it than ps4 pro and Scorpio. Lower screen res and no HDR require less precision. At 4K res and HDR you'll notice rounding errors much sooner. PS3 and 360 should have had this, bit late now.

Half Precision is irrellevent anyway. The reason why FP32 was used instead of the cheaper FP16 was because FP32 was simply superior.
In the days before fully programmable pixel shaders, you only had a few layers of multi-texturing, you could get away with inferior rounding errors.

Today with advanced water effects, reflections and refraction, bump mapping, specular highlighting and all the other advanced effects... They all demand a high degree of accuracy and precision so that they don't look horrible, FP16 is useless for this.

It's also a good way to reduce power consumption, thus it will likely be used more heavily on the Nintendo Switch than the Playstation 4 Pro, it's also used heavily in Android/iOS games.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Around the Network
GribbleGrunger on 22 October 2016
Pemalite said:
GribbleGrunger said:
This is interesting from Engadget:

'He's not exaggerating here either. In a demo this week, he pulled up a scene in Days Gone on two separate Pros and 4K televisions, one of them natively rendered and the other checkerboard upscaled. The images were nearly indistinguishable: The native game was slightly more saturated and the textures in the grass were clearly resolved while the checkerboard grass shimmered slightly in the breeze. However, from three or four feet away, it was nigh impossible to see a difference.'

https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/20/ps4-pro-mark-cerny-interview-hardware/

Well of course Cerny is going to toute such rhetoric. He want's to sell more devices, so he will grab as many straws as he can and run with it.

There is a difference between 4k and Checkerboard, but the difference really depends on your own eyesight, the display and of course, the developers.. It's a stop gap measure, not a replacement for true 4k.

 

 

 

What are you talking about? That it Engadget saying that not Cerny and as much as you'd really not like it to be true, I'm affraid it is. There is even less of a difference between checkerboard 4K and native 4K than there is between 900p and 1080p. Flops mean nothing to your average gamer.



 

The PS5 Exists. 


Pemalite on 22 October 2016
GribbleGrunger said:

What are you talking about? That it Engadget saying that not Cerny and as much as you'd really not like it to be true, I'm affraid it is. There is even less of a difference between checkerboard 4K and native 4K than there is between 900p and 1080p. Flops mean nothing to your average gamer.

Did you even bother to read the article? They were quoting Cerny.

And I disagree on the differences between 900P and 1080P being larger than Checkerboard (I.E. Two 1080P/900P frames to simulate higher resolutions.)
It's a stop gap measure because the hardware isn't capable enough for 4k, it's as simple as that.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Lafiel on 22 October 2016
sc94597 said:
What specifically about the PS4's GPU allows it to take advantage of the half data type? Hasn't this existed since 2002? I'd think the calculation gains would be realizable by all modern computing devices. I figured they used floats because floats are standard and likely the loss of accuracy at 16 bits would be unwanted (not sure why though, gaming isn't say -scientific computing.)

ofc pretty much all hardware can operate with half-floats, but the necessary components to do 2 at once is almost exclusively found in professional gpus

btw gaming engines are more and more like scientific computing, especially when using methods like ray/cone-tracing or physically based rendering



Hynad on 22 October 2016
Pemalite said:
GribbleGrunger said:

What are you talking about? That it Engadget saying that not Cerny and as much as you'd really not like it to be true, I'm affraid it is. There is even less of a difference between checkerboard 4K and native 4K than there is between 900p and 1080p. Flops mean nothing to your average gamer.

Did you even bother to read the article? They were quoting Cerny.

And I disagree on the differences between 900P and 1080P being larger than Checkerboard (I.E. Two 1080P/900P frames to simulate higher resolutions.)
It's a stop gap measure because the hardware isn't capable enough for 4k, it's as simple as that.

This isn't a quote from Cerny: 

"He's not exaggerating here either. In a demo this week, he pulled up a scene in Days Gone on two separate Pros and 4K televisions, one of them natively rendered and the other checkerboard upscaled. The images were nearly indistinguishable: The native game was slightly more saturated and the textures in the grass were clearly resolved while the checkerboard grass shimmered slightly in the breeze. However, from three or four feet away, it was nigh impossible to see a difference."

https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/20/ps4-pro-mark-cerny-interview-hardware/

Did you bother to read the article? =P



Around the Network
DonFerrari on 22 October 2016

Let's see what use ND will do of it. Crazy to know the comparison between PS4 and Pro on UC4 and more over on new titles.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

COKTOE on 22 October 2016

Jaaaaa? Tagging.



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

GribbleGrunger on 22 October 2016
Pemalite said:

Did you even bother to read the article? They were quoting Cerny.

And I disagree on the differences between 900P and 1080P being larger than Checkerboard (I.E. Two 1080P/900P frames to simulate higher resolutions.)
It's a stop gap measure because the hardware isn't capable enough for 4k, it's as simple as that.

It was Engadget saying that. And the Pro is capable of native 4K.



 

The PS5 Exists. 


fatslob-:O on 22 October 2016

The new ID buffer that's not in Polaris microarchitecture is arguably a more interesting feature than double rate half float since it allows you to track object edges with per-pixel accuracy on a per frame basis which is highly ideal for spatial and temporal anti-aliasing ...



Pemalite on 22 October 2016
Hynad said:
Pemalite said:

Did you even bother to read the article? They were quoting Cerny.

And I disagree on the differences between 900P and 1080P being larger than Checkerboard (I.E. Two 1080P/900P frames to simulate higher resolutions.)
It's a stop gap measure because the hardware isn't capable enough for 4k, it's as simple as that.

This isn't a quote from Cerny: 

"He's not exaggerating here either. In a demo this week, he pulled up a scene in Days Gone on two separate Pros and 4K televisions, one of them natively rendered and the other checkerboard upscaled. The images were nearly indistinguishable: The native game was slightly more saturated and the textures in the grass were clearly resolved while the checkerboard grass shimmered slightly in the breeze. However, from three or four feet away, it was nigh impossible to see a difference."

https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/20/ps4-pro-mark-cerny-interview-hardware/

Did you bother to read the article? =P

Did you read the Paragraph just before that one? They were quoting Cerny and basing the following Paragraph on his thoughts from the one prior, they even started the new Paragraph recognizing that when they state "He's not exaggerating here either".
Cerny quotes are all through the Article.



GribbleGrunger said:

It was Engadget saying that. And the Pro is capable of native 4K.

The Regular PS4 was capable of native 4k thanks to it's HDMI 1.4 interface, albeit limited to 30hz.
Doesn't mean AAA games will be rendered at that resolution, the Playstation 4 Pro simply doesn't have the hardware capability to achieve it.
I doubt even Scorpio will, but I'll wait and see how that plays out.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--