More to read and more to say, but it's time to raid.
zero129 said:
You played with me enough to know how i play. I dont like how you now try to say im somehow playing diifferent then i have been in any of our games. I could only imagine a mafia prof trying this since town prof would know well enough how i play and my style. |
zero129 said:
This whole post to me just seems like you trying to add in but in the main time trying to HoS everyone in your post without doing the HoS. However i have no tell yet on if your mafia or town its hard to say with you and i told you that also last game. However im not sure of the odds of you being mafia again. Your such a good player maybe our host picked you along with another newish player as mafia. I fins it very odd both you and Mr.P decided to target me for simply asking about the vote on Xander, and i also do believe we have 2 mafia this game. |
This is literally back to back posts. You can only imagine a mafia prof doing something and then you have no tell yet? I'm taking back my town vibe as that's not logical, but more like you're making it up as you go along.
zero129 said: Ok this is my reads so far. I find it odd for Prof to bring up my playstyle since he has played many games with me he should know im playing as i always do. I also find it odd how others such as Linkzmax things its odd of me to question why them votes are still left and then they make it look like me doing this is leading the convo away from me. Why is the convo on me in the first place?. Oh thats right its cos Linkzmax and Prof and Mr.Playstation are trying to direct it on me for some reason. And all this greatness from them comes from me asking about the votes... |
I made no mention of it being odd for you to question my vote, nor do I think you are trying to lead the convo away from yourself. Rather you've been blowing up at every mention of your name, making the conversation involve you more often than not.
zero129 said: Ok i also see both prof and linkz have not removed their votes from Xander and Trucks since you guys where just starting a convo why are them votes still there?. |
I voted Xander to get conversation going. I then removed that vote. Now my vote is on Trucks because I believe he is mafia. To be clear again, since this is related to your other post: I said it is odd for Trucks to not think you could be mafia trying to direct the conversation away from you with our early back and forth.
spurgeonryan said: linkzmax are you putting words in my mouth? I did not say it was a waste of time, just that day one reaction hunting is well just....your doing it to seem activeand to get conversation started but unlike day two and on you cannot honestly expect to get anything from jokes and talking about what was said in the sign up thread. Basically day one banter is different than the rest of the days. |
No, I read it as you think there's no point to the suspicions even though their goal is content. The other way to read it is you think it's pointless because hos/fos/voting fails in getting reactions or starting convos, but that wouldn't make sense to say considering it succeeded this very game.
Now you are elaborating on it. No, I happen to think the conversations Day 1 are the most important ones. In most games mafia haven't had a chance to talk secretly and strategize. Being truly active(not just trying to seem active) is quite important as it forces scum to try to keep up or be lynched as a lurker. It's easier to make out a confused townie versus a faking mafioso when there's a lot more to read from each of them. And in later Days there's more to look back on to check for consistency or changes of heart.
Further, I don't expect much to come from joke votes or talking about sign-up thread banter; however, Day 1 evolves out of the joke phase at some point, and we passed that point quite a while ago.
On the phone so just a quick post about things so far:
The trucks/link suspicion is mainly due to that bait thing, which I saw as focusing on a trivial point that wouldn't likely go anywhere. It came off as a potential establishing shot. Links portraying the two as having no ties. I believe it's a common tactic to suspect teammates as mafia on day 1. I'm not saying either of them ARE mafia, just that I'm noting the possible link.
Links does tend to focus on wordplay in mafia, so I can't say this is out of character, nor have I seen him in over a year so I can't really put it any more finely than that.
I have a general idea of how link plays as town, and this also seems slightly different, like zero, bUT I also want to point out I could just be overly critical because I'm glad he's back.
Regarding zero:
Your reasoning as to what you would do as host is the reason why you don't host games. We played a game where spurge and some first time player (I forget who) destroyed town. Spurge was a serial killer, and I forget who but I think there was two serial killers? Anyway, the point is, everyone is capable of winning this game. A player should never have the opportunity to "metagame" (def: use resources outside the context of the game to make decisions). That includes guessing who a mod would pick for what role.
Secondly, I believe you have a strong grasp on your own town play. I think you know exactly how you act. Same goes for spurge. I also think the both of you have the kind of hard headed confidence that you would keep up the random wild plays type of your typical town play.
I also think you need to watch how you talk because you say a lot of unnecessary things. You saying that my feelings on you being wrong is "a slip", is detrimental to town discussion. It's how I feel, it's not a slip, nor does it even match the definition of a slip. A slip is like if I were to accidentally refer to someone being on my team. This is exactly what I capitalized on last game when I got mrp lynched, because he made a slip regarding "looking for his teammate". Or was that spurge? Whoever. I used it because slips are hard for town to ignore. It's related to a Freudian slip, where like you're on a date or something and she asks you how your food is and you say, "the nipples are great". It's a slip because at that point you've accidentally said exactly what you were thinking.
Nor are my opinions on your playstyle a lie. I feel what I feel, and like I said, I think you know your town play well enough to make a pretty good impression of it. Again, this is day 1, I'm not throwing accusations out, I'm just pointing out what I see so far.
I also don't like how you say you know you get defensive about accusations because in your mind it's mafia trying to lynch you. You've played enough to know that townie accuse townie just as much as mafia does. So even if you are town, it's such an illogical statement. It just feels like you're trying so hard to come off as town. Like, in my head your statements come off as:
"Clearly I'm town"
"Look at me, I'm playing the way I do as town"
"My playstyle as town is x, that's what I'm doing now"
"Look how I approach this, I'm clearly thinking of myself as a town"
It's not that you're playing wildly differently, it's just that if I look at something you're addressing and precede it by saying "what do I say to appear town here", your posts line up. Not to keep going back to sex, but it's like when you meet someone and every sentence has some kind of "let's hang out" vibe to it, even when it's not being said.
Ok time to do a quick little game setup analysis.
With 2 mafia, we have enough for 2 lunches before it's game over. Day 1 mislynch: 6 players, night one kill: 5 players. Day 2 mislynch: game over.
But then, say we no lynch, then a kill tonight is 6 a mislynch is 5, another kill is 4, and that's also game over.
So basically, town has the most potential by lynching someone today.
zero129 said: But did trucks even say i was town?, i just remember you saying that?. However my playstyle is always defensive as town since when i get accussed it always makes my brain believe this is mafia trying to get me lynched or set me up for a future lynch. Id imagine as mafia id be trying to lay a bit more low key then getting so involved. But like every other time i been town you can see my post count is way ahard of everyone else in the last 3 mafia games and in them 3 games i allowed prof to direct my defensiveness away from him and onto others (Its their own faults anyways for coming after me when im town with bad reasons ). Thats something i wont allow to happen this game. But like i said i now believe the mafia is going to come after me hard this game but thats exactly what i want . |
I think there is potential that you are town. I have been looking at your posts again since I called you a narcissist, and it fits with that as well. It's very ego-centric, so I'm just going to put this out there in case you are town.
Stop formulating your theories simply based on your own reasoning. The only reason you say "id imagine mafia are trying to lay a bit more low key" is only because the people you think are mafia are being low key in your mind. Nobody comes after you for bad reasons. You say a lot of illogical shit that is SO EASY to turn against you.
"i believe mafia is going to come after me hard this game"
Buts that only because you believe the people coming after you are mafia.
"But i find most mafia players unless they a new mostly stay silent day 1 with many excuses."
Buts that only because you believe the people who are silent day 1 with many excuses today are mafia.
"However my playstyle is always defensive as town since when i get accussed it always makes my brain believe this is mafia trying to get me lynched or set me up for a future lynch."
"ts their own faults anyways for coming after me when im town with bad reasons"
You think people who accuse you are mafia trying to get you lynched, yet you readily admit that townies are the ones accusing you.
In my opinion, the scariest thing about a town zero isn't your ability to launch a strong argument. It's your ability to completely change your mind over something very trivial. It's exactly like last game. My last kill was between you or spurge. Both of you share this ability to switch over the drop of a hat, so I knew I had to get rid of one of you. It's not that I was scared of your detective ability or your mafia prowess, it's that you can completely change your thoughts for seemingly no reason at all. I killed you because you are the wilder one. Even xander admitted last game that he thought Spurge's posts on the last day were very suspicious, and in the end, he sided with spurge because of one sentence:
Prof: "im honestly very surprised that you believed all that nonsense he just said."
Xander: "I didn't actually believe him. He laid it a bit too thick. It's just that he was right. There was no supposed lynch.
Edit: I will explain myself. He was trying to appeal to my emotions, which made me suspicious. But he also had another point where prof would have been eliminitated first, because none of us are as good as him."
Stefl: "Finally, I am a bit pissy that I actually forgot to end day one and thus gave prof the oportunity to unvote."
You see zero, the scariest thing for me as mafia, is to have to deal with people who aren't reading or not using logic. That's why you and other noobs are generally scary to me when I'm mafia. This is why I generally don't target you and instead just kill you at night, because I'm ok as long as there are rational people. But it's a fine line because these kinds of people are also useful to me to create mislynches. I use people like you to create lynches because I KNOW you can make a case against someone out of nothing, but I have to tread carefully between your usefulness and your threat. However, this doesn't mean that I'm mafia this game because I was targetting you, I was targetting you because I had a feeling you were mafia. As do many other townies who come after you for "bad reasons".
So no, nobody on mafia is coming to come after you hard this game. You are useful to mafia.
zero129 said: To the bolded: No the reason i dont host games is that i have too much fun playing them . But fact is you could very easy hand out roles in such a small game instead of at random and how exactly would you be able to meta them any better then a random game since you wouldnt know if the game is random or not?.. To Underlined: No dont use word play to change what was said it doesnt work on me. You said im not playing as myself. That was your words and thats what i said was your slip since im playing exactly as i always play. However it seems you noticed your own slip since your now trying to change around what you said and also say how i would have a strong enough grasp of my town self to pull it off as my mafia self. And the only reason i've even been having to refore to myself as town is thanks to your silly reasons of saying right at the start of the game after i made how many posts? that im not playing as myself, and now your still trying it yet you dont have one bit of anything to show how im playing any different then in the last 2 games and any other ones i was town before that. So yeah i do find it odd your trying to paint me this early but ya know what.... I think this might mean your town since your the one not playing as you did the last 2 games. Mafia prof would know to buddy up to me since you would try to use me i know this since its what you done the last 2 games.. And yes you do have a point about getting defensive at every accusation but i didnt say that now did i?. I said i only get defensive at the silly ones against me when i know they are coming from a otherwise good player. If it was a noob or something not so much of a problem or if it was a proper accusation not much of a problem. But when i know that a good player is making a silly accusation against me im going to get defensive about it since i see no reason for why this person would be doing this. However like i said earlier imo this isnt your mafia playstyle since i know you wouldnt be so quick to try come after me and instead would try to use me. But like i said i have a pretty good idea of who im after and now that your off the list in my mind for now it just makes that list smaller. |
1. That is exactly the point. You are trying to meta-analyze who or what stefl would do, when for one, you don't even know if the game is random or not, and for second, it's a bad idea to do even if it is handpicked, because you aren't judging the players based on their actual involvement, but on some unknown decision by a person you don't even know.
2. I'm not changing anything I said, nor did I make a slip. You still don't get it even after being given a definition. I'm not making a slip because we are in disagreement in your playstyle. I am simply in disagreement with what you consider your playstyle and what I see as your playstyle. That doesn't make me or you wrong. It makes us in disagreement. It's like two people looking at the number 6 painted on the ground from two diffferent sides. One says it's a 6, one says it's a 9. That doesn't make anyone wrong, or lying, or slipping or anything. I simply disagree. It's baffling that I have to explain this to you. Secondly, to follow up on the unbolded part right after, I said this earlier in the game:
"I don't like zero's enthusiastic participation, it's coming off as wild and a parody of his town play"
I'm covering up my "slip" by saying you are "strong enough grasp of my town self to pull it off as my mafia self."???
So, you're saying I went back in time and changed my mind first, correct? Because I called your play a parody of your town play.
I feel like it would be degrading to you to post a link to the definition of parody, but at this point I'm honestly not sure if you're not reading the thread, or just don't know simple english.
3. Because there is no evidence. All I said was it seemed off. I don't know what you want? A case? Litigation? You want me to get CSI involved? You're acting completely crazy and defensive for no reason. No. I don't have hard evidence on you. But who is to say you're not mafia getting crazy defensive? I don't know. I'm just pointing out what I see.
4. Or maybe I AM mafia and I'm just changing things up. It's so frustrating to see your thought process. People change their playstyle. It doesn't mean anything. Town OR mafia both change playstyle at any time. It's the reasoning for the change that's important. The REASON I think you're playing differently is because you're scum who is trying to ACT TOWN. Yes, I understand that in your head, you acting town is no different than you being town. But in my head, it looks different.
5. First of all, the only reason you think things are silly is because you don't see them. It literally is the definition of psychopathy, where everyone else is wrong except you. Do you deny that in any game, every player has suspected you? Your own explanation is that either that player is scum, or a noob. Or maybe it's just that everyone does have a good reason to suspect you, and maybe you should up your game? No no, they're wrong and you're right. /s
6. Or maybe I WOULD come after you as some kind of revenge. Or maybe I'm doing things differently because I lost last game and so I'm changing my strategy. You see, zero, what's worrying about a player like you is that you don't consider seemingly simple explanations. I mean, you're right that I'm playing differently, and you're right that I'm town, but it worries me that in a game like this, decisions will come down to the wire, and I will be dead, and you will not, and that means I have to rely on someone (if you're town) who isn't taking everything into consideration.
zero129 said:
Ok so why would town have the best protentual to lynch someone? Guys if we dont lynch someone we will get like 3 days but if we lynch someone we will get 2...Smart... But with this post and your other one i see what you where trying to do. Or at least i think i see. Your looking to try get me lynched. Your trying to set up for it by using the "Mafia would use zero" no prof. No one else on the mafia team would be good enough to trick me as you did. Now i find it odd why your even trying to set up a lynch for today with the hopes that player could turn out to be mafia when a mislynch would be very bad for town even more so if followed by another like you said. Maybe its just so long since you last played as town has made you rusty as town but this is a pretty bad post from you... |
No, zero.
Let me spell it out for you again, because I thought it was clear enough above.
We have 7.
I'm assuming 2 mafia, because 1 would be completely unfair. The general rule is 1 to 3. Or 1 in every 4 players is mafia. If we have 2, that means 2/7 instead of 2/8. So mafia have the advantage here. It only takes 3 deaths to bring the total population down to 4. And if there are 2 mafia, then the game is over when there is 2 mafia and 2 town, because town can't lynch a mafia without a majority unless somehow a mafia votes for another mafia.
Are you with me so far?
Ok
We have 7 now. 2 mafia 5 town
If we lynch someone and they turn out to be town, there will be 2 mafia 4 town
Then scum kills someone tonight, making it 2 mafia 3 town
Then on day 2, we have to lynch a mafia, because if we lynch another town, it makes it 2 mafia 2 town, which is unwinnable.
Therefore, because the only way we have a chance at winning is to lynch a mafia, lynching today gives us 2 chances. Day 1 and day 2
Are you still with me?
If we DON'T lynch today, we go into the night with 2 mafia 5 town.
mafia kills someone making it 2 mafia, 4 town.
Then tomorrow, say we lynch someone and they turn out to be town. That makes 2 mafia, 3 town.
Then we go into Night 2, and mafia kills another town, making it 2 mafia, 2 town.
On day 3, town can't lynch a mafia because they don't have majority. Town is only 50% and you need more than 50% to lynch.
So, going this route we get one chance to lynch.
deja vu yet? I literally just wrote this in the quoted above.
So, going with a lynch today, we get a 2/7 chance to get a mafia (ie; there are 2 mafia out of 7 players) and then a 2/5 chance to get a mafia. That's a 28% chance and a 40% chance.
If we don't lynch today and instead just lynch on day 2, we only get a single 2/6 chance. 30%.
Both scenarios end on day 2. The choice we have is whether to get two lynches, or one.
So no, zero, it's not a bad post from me. These are all bad posts from you. But in your mind, you're right, so that must mean that math is mafia.
zero129 said: This post is full of bullshit but fair play to your prof you make up some good bullshit and then talk about how othersw can pull shit from nothing?. 1 Maybe your upset that Spurge beat you at your own word play last game so thats why your calling him bad this game?, we all know spurge is a good player and to be honest i dont know why you would insult him like this.. 2 You knew also last game if you left me alive one more day i was coming after you and you would of never one (And you didnt thanks to Spurge and Xander) thats why you killed me if i was so bad you wouldnt of needed to do this now would you. I mean after all im the "Wilder" one out of me and spurge and you say me and spurge is crap but im crapper and yet mafia you leaves the better player alive why would you do this when you where planning on trying to get spurge lynched anyways?.. 3 I even told stefl before i knew that you where the mafia who killed me and how i couldnt believe you played me again. But you see prof this is testiment to how good of a player you are, and i admit your playing longer then me and are clearly one of the best mafia players in the game But here you are trying to put a bunch of my quotes taking completly out of context and trying to branch them together to try say how im a bad player including adding in an out of context vote from stefl also.. Not only this but like i said you talk about building something from nothing yet here you are doing it. I dont know i could be wrong about thinking you where town with my reply earlier. Its hard to see a town prof making them last two replys from you and let me explain why. Town prof would not want to risk making it easier for mafia by having a mislynch even if he thinks that player is bad (Something your trying to build up to am i right?). Town prof also wouldnt take a bunch of different posts completly out of context and try to use them to get another town player lynched. However a mafia prof might not like me bragging about how i would of got you last game or bragging about how the mafia wouldnt come after me so your showing your skills by trying to get me lynched to what prove a point that you can?. |
1 I didn't say spurge is bad. I said spurge can change his mind at the drop of a hat, and that's dangerous to me when I'm mafia. That's actually a credit to him.
2 I literally just made a post where xander admitted that the only reason he went with spurge was because he thought a lynch wasn't going to happen day one when even the mod came in and said there was going to be a lynch day one. xander wasn't reading the thread. Xander picked spurge's side because spurge said something wrong, and xander didn't check it. He also said that he believed spurge and you about "prof being alive is mafia prof", when almost every single player at the end (even spurge) said that's bad reasoning. I left spurge alive because I expected him NOT to say something unreasonable. Look, remember when I said xander voted me because he didn't read, and used bad reasoning? I expected spurge NOT to do those things. That's why I killed you because you WOULD use those things. Turns out, spurge did too, and it got me lynched because xander wasn't reading. Additionally, I had been calling you town all game, so it would look weird to suddenly start accusing you, where it would have been easier to accuse spurge because I wasn't backing him as hard.
3 Nothing to do with my experience. Read my first few games, it's all the same. It's about simple reading comprehension. Oh, and you want to know what a slip is? My first game I was the town roleblocker. One of my first posts was like, "so what do we do in this game, we lynch someone in the day and then block someone at night?". THAT is a slip. Because I gave away my role. I thought everyone could block each other, but if people had been paying attention, it would have been obvious. Games were different back then though. Harder to keep track of slips when there's 30 players.
4 Your posts are a joke, and while I'm not trying to get you lynched, and I'm simply reprimanding you for really poor play, at this point I really wouldn't mind if you did die.