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Forums - Sports - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 5.88%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 17.65%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 3 17.65%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 4 23.53%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 17.65%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 5.88%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 11.76%
 
Total:17
PAOerfulone said:

WOW!!!

I was NOT expecting Jey to win it! He wasn't my 3rd, 4th, or even 5th guess, but here we are!
Main Event Jey Uso is going to Main Event WrestleMania!

YEET-A-MANIA!
Put that on a T-shirt! It'll make millions!
You can thank me later, WWE!

Now the question is: Who does Jey go after? Cody or Gunther?

Yeah... Even when it was down to him and Cena I thought it was a foregone conclusion that Cena would win. 

I'm personally not the biggest Jey Uso fan, but there's no denying he's one of the most over guys on the roster, and definitely the most over out of those who have not yet been on the main event. Can't be mad about H listening to the fans.

I thought the women's rumble was the best that division has ever had. Jordyn Grace was instantly impressive to those who don't watch TNA. Alexa's return actually got a bigger pop than I anticipated. Probably better than Charlotte's, but that may be just because of the element of surprise. 

Cody and Owens did the best they could in a match where the winner was never in doubt. Hopefully Cody is ok after a couple of nasty spots he seemed to get the worst of. 

Jey Uso winning was much more enjoyable for the night than Cena or Punk winning, but I'm sort of not seeing him vs Gunther or him vs Rhodes as a Mania Main event calibur match. Especially since we already saw him and Gunther I think a couple of times recently. But I guess they have about two and a half months to sell me on it, so I'll reserve judgment. 

Overall, it's probably the best PLE they've done since Mania 40. I still think having both Rumbles in the same night is less than ideal, but at least both were really good. It's not necessarily that the in ring action was anything amazing beyond other Rumbles, but when you actually build interesting characters and dynamics between them, it really elevates this kind of match.



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Jumpin said:

Poor Lyra 😁
I thought the women’s rumble match was a little crowded for too long. The problem when that happens is too many get lost in the mix and it feels like the match is at a standstill for too long. We got to see a lot of interaction, but almost no story to speak of. Just a lot of stuff going on in small parts of the ring, but nothing much exciting. The Royal Rumble March is great for two reasons: 1. It’s a battle Royale - and 2. It’s a gauntlet. I kinda feel like the gauntlet part of it was a bit muted - and that’s the part where standout wrestlers are built.

The men’s rumble, when Priest, Knight, Sami, Drew, Roman, Punk, and Seth all went out in like a 3 minute window, I was wondering WTF happened? Well, for those going for Sami, his brother won! 😁

Anyway, on WWE shows. I mostly prioritize NXT - and it’s the only show I regularly watch top to bottom when time’s afforded. It’s a different type of show than RAW or Smackdown. Much less hierarchical, and so it feels more like everyone’s story is important. Anyone who isn’t featured regularly are a treat when they’re on the show. But RAW and Smackdown are more focused on a few characters. Those who aren’t in the focus window are extras/jobbers, and their matches/stories feel like filler with no tension. For me, those are easier to skip. It feels like on NXT that whenever a big story happens, that it wasn’t forced, that it rose organically. IMO, Gargano and Ciampa’s story was the best in the last 10 years of WWE, one that rose to the top with a cult-like following. It happened in NXT, without needing those 20 minute promo windows.

In other words, RAW and Smackdown are more a pyramid. With some exceptions, your storyline is really only important when you’re near the top. Otherwise you’re either unimportant or have found some niche as an entertaining sideshow flair (like R Truth, Logan Paul, or LA Knight) - I feel like Penta, right now, is the exception to the rule where he’s both a big sideshow but somehow also comes off as significant.

NXT is more like a Mastaba where everyone is on the same level, and it’s just a matter of proximity to the altar or the throne. On top of that, mostly everyone has the chance to get their sideshow flair (or gimmicks) over. So, I find the shows are mostly fun beginning to end.

Look at DIY, in NXT these guys rose to the top because they have a lot of talent. But on RAW/Smackdown they’re stuck in unimportance. Their stories have no tension, no real stakes besides unimportant titles, whether they win or lose matches is inconsequential.

That’s how I see WWE.

Don’t get me wrong, I like all the shows, and understand that RAW and Smackdown are where the biggest stars are. But most of the RAW and Smackdown roster would be more fun to watch on an NXT-like show.

Another thing, NXT never gets stale. When someone gets too big, they never have the chance to lose their lustre while monopolizing the top, as they’ll be transferred to RAW/Smackdown before that happens. Sometimes they get to the top of the pyramid, but it’s a small peak; so, more often than not, they become a shell of their former selves (DIY is a probably the best example).

Good on Liv Morgan for having enough experience to knock Lyra to the corner so she had a reason to be out of the match while she sorted things out.



A number of releases. Mixed bag. Some I expected, others are a bit surprising.

1. Sonya Deville
2. Cedric Alexander
3. Isla Dawn
4. Authors of Pain and Paul Ellering
5. Giovani Vinci
6. Blair Davenport
7. Anderson and Gallows

Kay Lee Ray/Alba Fyre is probably going too. I liked that team, but they weren’t getting over, and they flubbed the match with Jakara and Lash Legend recently- I mean, it was Jakara/Lash’s error, but they failed to cover it up by attacking them when the move took too long.

Sonya Deville marks the end of Absolution. And Riott Squad member Liv Morgan went to the top.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:

A number of releases. Mixed bag. Some I expected, others are a bit surprising.

1. Sonya Deville
2. Cedric Alexander
3. Isla Dawn
4. Authors of Pain and Paul Ellering
5. Giovani Vinci
6. Blair Davenport
7. Anderson and Gallows

Kay Lee Ray/Alba Fyre is probably going too. I liked that team, but they weren’t getting over, and they flubbed the match with Jakara and Lash Legend recently- I mean, it was Jakara/Lash’s error, but they failed to cover it up by attacking them when the move took too long.

Sonya Deville marks the end of Absolution. And Riott Squad member Liv Morgan went to the top.

I never want anyone to lose their job, but I can't really say I'll miss any of them all that much. Aside from maybe Isla Dawn. All of these were people who were kind of good workers but weren't really able to connect with the fans (although some never reall got the chance). They were useful as midcarders, but may as well use other people for the midcard and see if they can get over. 



Elektra Lopez also released. She was on TV last Smackdown, briefly.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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JWeinCom said:
KratosLives said:

Is it just me or does the overall state of wrestling seem so stale compared to nitro/attitude/ early agression era? Honestly I can't sit through a show of smackdown or raw. Aew is almost as bad, but puts out better wrestling matches.

Maybe. But also consider that you're almost 30 years older. People always tend to think the stuff from when they were young was so much better because they remember how it exciting it used to feel, but maybe it was just more exciting because they were younger 

Edit: For anyone stuggling to get excited for wrasslin, I got some advice. Get very high. Order pizza. I'm super highped for the show man.

No , it's not an age thing. I've gone through the 80s era, 90s, attitude, ruthless agression. The issue is after a while, you've seen it all. Repeated storylines etc etc.  The starts just don't have the same "it" factor.  I think it has something to do with alont of them these days looking too young, or not manly enough. Before you'd have stars well into their 30s, prob early 40s. They had a look to them that boys the yound and older people can look to.  

The best is long gone. Even how they do promos and such.  Cody's run to the top feels so manufactured.  What theyre doing now with uso. Plus i seem to notice alot more botches in the ring, especially from the womans matches.  

Seeing that logan paul is being set up for a match with cm punk, is just absurd.  The state of wwe really is terrible.  I will be tuning in for wrestmania, to see gunther smash uso, he bring a little excitement. And ofcourse cenas last match against cody. But that's about it.



KratosLives said:
JWeinCom said:

Maybe. But also consider that you're almost 30 years older. People always tend to think the stuff from when they were young was so much better because they remember how it exciting it used to feel, but maybe it was just more exciting because they were younger 

Edit: For anyone stuggling to get excited for wrasslin, I got some advice. Get very high. Order pizza. I'm super highped for the show man.

No , it's not an age thing. I've gone through the 80s era, 90s, attitude, ruthless agression. The issue is after a while, you've seen it all. Repeated storylines etc etc.  The starts just don't have the same "it" factor.  I think it has something to do with alont of them these days looking too young, or not manly enough. Before you'd have stars well into their 30s, prob early 40s. They had a look to them that boys the yound and older people can look to.  

The best is long gone. Even how they do promos and such.  Cody's run to the top feels so manufactured.  What theyre doing now with uso. Plus i seem to notice alot more botches in the ring, especially from the womans matches.  

Seeing that logan paul is being set up for a match with cm punk, is just absurd.  The state of wwe really is terrible.  I will be tuning in for wrestmania, to see gunther smash uso, he bring a little excitement. And ofcourse cenas last match against cody. But that's about it.

If you feel youve seen it all isn't that kind of an age thing? You've seen it all because you're old and you've been watching for a while. 

Wrestling is a bit of a limited art form as you have to tell stories that will logically end in a match. There's only so many stories you could tell. There's a formula and you can't vary it up too much.

Personally I think this is the best the product has been in at least a decade. The numbers seem to indicate a lot of people agree, but if it's not for you, it's not for you. Check out other promotions or just spend some more time playing video games or doing whatever else you enjoy on a Monday Night. 

As for the matches you're expecting at Mania, I don't think that's the way things are headed. Bear in mind, this is Cena's last Mania, but not his last match. He's expected to keep competing through 2025. With that being the case, I don't think he faces Cody for the title. I think they want to milk Cena going for the title until a little later down the line. 

I also don't see CM Punk vs Logan Paul happening. They're interacting but that's just kind of HHH's style of booking. A match between Punk and Roman or Punk and Seth seems more likely at this point. Punk and Paul are just interacting because they're both going to be in the chamber. 

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 12 February 2025

Wrestling is better than ever. I don't watch WWE, though but know they are doing well again. I know AEW is doing well. I like AEW because it puts on great shows, focuses more on amazing matches, teams up with New Japan Pro Wrestling and CMLL, and does joint shows. Tonight, AEW is in Australia. TBH WWF AE sucked ass. It was novel then but watching it now. It's just crash TV and mostly trash. Nitro nor AE aged well. Wrestling is better now than it has been since the territory era. Everyone is doing well. Everyone is putting on good shows. More choices for everyone and more employment opportunities for wrestlers and those behind the scenes. Anyone pining for Nitro/AE has nostalgia goggles and/or has not watched in a long long time to see how shit it has aged.

Last edited by Leynos - on 16 February 2025

Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Leynos said:

Wrestling is better than ever. I don't watch WWE, though but know they are doing well again. I know AEW is doing well. I like AEW because it puts on great shows, focuses more on amazing matches, teams up with New Japan Pro Wrestling and CMLL, and does joint shows. Tonight, AEW is in Australia. TBH WWF AE sucked ass. It was novel then but watching it now. It's just crash TV and mostly trash. Nitro nor AE aged well. Wrestling is better now than it has been since the territory era. Everyone is doing well. Everyone is putting on good shows. More choices for everyone and more employment opportunities for wrestlers and those behind the scenes. Anyone pining for Nitro/AE has nostalgia goggles and/or has not watched in a long long time to see how shit it has aged.

I think when it comes to the attitude era there is a bias.  We remember all of the great moments of which there were many,  but there was also a lot of really terrible stuff surrounding it.  I wouldn't say it sucks ass but it's probably not as good as people remember. 

Harley should have won. 



JWeinCom said:
Leynos said:

Wrestling is better than ever. I don't watch WWE, though but know they are doing well again. I know AEW is doing well. I like AEW because it puts on great shows, focuses more on amazing matches, teams up with New Japan Pro Wrestling and CMLL, and does joint shows. Tonight, AEW is in Australia. TBH WWF AE sucked ass. It was novel then but watching it now. It's just crash TV and mostly trash. Nitro nor AE aged well. Wrestling is better now than it has been since the territory era. Everyone is doing well. Everyone is putting on good shows. More choices for everyone and more employment opportunities for wrestlers and those behind the scenes. Anyone pining for Nitro/AE has nostalgia goggles and/or has not watched in a long long time to see how shit it has aged.

I think when it comes to the attitude era there is a bias.  We remember all of the great moments of which there were many,  but there was also a lot of really terrible stuff surrounding it.  I wouldn't say it sucks ass but it's probably not as good as people remember. 

Harley should have won. 

I think with a 7 hour tape delay, AEW wanted to hold off for now and do a rematch later. Build it up more.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!