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Forums - Sports - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 5.88%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 17.65%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 3 17.65%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 4 23.53%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 17.65%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 5.88%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 11.76%
 
Total:17
JWeinCom said:

Watching No Way Out from 2008, and what a weird start.

There's a match between CM Punk and Chavo Guerero and the fans are really pulling for Chavo. They're booing Punk, who was the face. Not like Cena levels of boos but definitely noticeable.

This is part of a trend. At the last PPV fans were rooting for Edge over Rey Mysterio, and it was about half and half during the match between Jeff Hardy and Orton.

Feels like the fans are just so sick of the product that they're just being contrarians and rooting for whoever they're not supposed to root for.

The weirder thing is going back to that era and seeing how damn athletic Punk used to be. He broke down a lot in those last years before his 10 year hiatus. It looks  like he lost more mobility/athleticism between about 2010 and 2013/14 than he did between then and 2023.



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So, who do you guys want to win each Rumble and who do you think will win?

For the women's, I want Bianca Belair to win. She is fantastic, and she's been out of the main event scene long enough to be missed. Rhea vs Bianca is honestly something I would pick as the main event of Mania over almost anything else they could do.

I honestly don't know who will win. I think it comes down to Bianca, Charlotte, and Becky if she's going to return. I think for Bianca, it makes sense, but they still have to kind of tie up the stuff with Jade and Naomi, so maybe she's bogged down with that till mania.

I feel like Charlotte could win, but probably shouldn't. Charlotte is 100% one of the best workers, but she has been kind of overexposed. I think fans will be happy to see her back, but pushing her right into the main event of mania might taint that goodwill.

Becky is a similar story to Charlotte, except that she was someone the fans chose initially. That being the case, she kind of gets some leeway that Charlotte doesn't.

As for others... Iyo Sky maybe? She is very over and they seem to want to push her, but I just don't see her vs Rhea or her vs Tiffany Straton as being a Mania worthy match. Match quality would be great, but I just don't see the build working very well.

So for who I think is going to win, I'm still going to go with Bianca.

For the mens, it's a tough call. You have Cena, Punk, Rollins, Reigns, and Mcyntyre all as likely candidates. Jey Uso and Sami Zayn are darkhorses. There are some guys like Bron Breaker that would make for surprising winners, but not shocking. And someone like Brock could come back and win it.

Really the strongest field we've seen in a while. My personal preference would be for Punk. Assuming the current champions remain title holders till Mania, I think the best two matches they could do would be Cody vs Punk or Cena vs Gunther. Cody and Punk could have some amazing promo battles while Cena vs Gunther would feature Cena beating the monster heel for the last time. Of the two, I'd be more interested in Punk vs Rhodes.

As for who I think will win, I dunno. I think they want to milk the Cena thing a bit more, and have him lose here to build more intrigue for Elimination Chamber, especially since he's so heavily advertised for that. Punk then seems like the next most likely candidate, but I feel like HHH has pretty rarely gone for the layup in his booking career. I get the weird feeling that the rumble is so star studded that they may have someone more unexpected fly in under the radar and take the win.

So, I'm gonna go with... Sami Zayn. Can't really give a logical reason for that, but I'm going with my gut.

This is probably the most hyped I've been for a rumble in a while. I accidentally spoiled the last one for myself (I tuned in a bit late thinking it was late enough that I would be able to watch the replay, but instead I got a glimpse of Cody winning) so I'm gonna be super vigilant about this one.

What are your predictions/wishes?




I like Charlotte's chances because of the Charlotte vs Tiffany matchup, that seems like gold. Charlotte will at least be in the final 3, I think there could be a surprise winner in Alexa Bliss. I think Belair will stick with the tag division for the foreseeable future - her and Naomi are growing on me - but she deserves a push after her babysitting run with Cargill where she (who is more experienced and skilled in every way) took the back seat.
My personal preference would be for a surprise NXT women's winner, though: Grace, Vaquer, Jade, Perez, or Jordan - although, I think Jordan has a year left to cook in NXT because she kinda has that little sister thing (or a Ricochet lack of attitude) thing going, but unlike Ricochet she's getting a lot better.

For Mens, Punk and Sami are the only two I can think of that are obvious.
A shock win by Jacob Fatu is a possibility.
None of the men's wrestlers in NXT are ready yet, Trick Williams or Oba Femi both have potential for 2026 and onward, Je'Von Edwards is a phenom, the most naturally gifted wrestler in WWE (maybe in the world) currently, but he's only 20. I think he's 2027 or later at this point. I think Ethan Page and Ridge Holland also show tremendous potential, but these guys are all clear future IC champions before moving up. Dempsey and King, second gen wrestlers, are also talented and improving, but need 2-3 years, and will probably be aiming at IC before looking at a world title. Wes Lee is incredibly gifted and is probably the most ready for the main roster of the men's division, but I feel like he's going to have the same issues that Dunne and Gable have - it would basically be a miracle if any of these guys won.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 30 January 2025

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:

I like Charlotte's chances because of the Charlotte vs Tiffany matchup, that seems like gold. Charlotte will at least be in the final 3, I think there could be a surprise winner in Alexa Bliss. I think Belair will stick with the tag division for the foreseeable future - her and Naomi are growing on me - but she deserves a push after her babysitting run with Cargill where she (who is more experienced and skilled in every way) took the back seat.
My personal preference would be for a surprise NXT women's winner, though: Grace, Vaquer, Jade, Perez, or Jordan - although, I think Jordan has a year left to cook in NXT because she kinda has that little sister thing (or a Ricochet lack of attitude) thing going, but unlike Ricochet she's getting a lot better.

For Mens, Punk and Sami are the only two I can think of that are obvious.
A shock win by Jacob Fatu is a possibility.
None of the men's wrestlers in NXT are ready yet, Trick Williams or Oba Femi both have potential for 2026 and onward, Je'Von Edwards is a phenom, the most naturally gifted wrestler in WWE (maybe in the world) currently, but he's only 20. I think he's 2027 or later at this point. I think Ethan Page and Ridge Holland also show tremendous potential, but these guys are all clear future IC champions before moving up. Dempsey and King, second gen wrestlers, are also talented and improving, but need 2-3 years, and will probably be aiming at IC before looking at a world title. Wes Lee is incredibly gifted and is probably the most ready for the main roster of the men's division, but I feel like he's going to have the same issues that Dunne and Gable have - it would basically be a miracle if any of these guys won.

I think it would be cool to have someone from NXT win. Just to kind of show that it can happen in the future. Although I haven't really been watching NXT, so I don't know who might fit that role.

I really don't think Tiffany and Charlotte should happen yet. I think Tiffan has a lot of potential, but she's not there yet. I think the spot is too big for her right now. Frankly, I don't think she could hang with Charlotte yet. 

Jacob Fatu would be interesting. I sort of feel like the 2026 rumble might be his time though. Sometimes a surprise is the way to go. But, if they keep building him the right way, people will really want him to win next year, and then you just give them what they want. 



JWeinCom said:
Jumpin said:

I like Charlotte's chances because of the Charlotte vs Tiffany matchup, that seems like gold. Charlotte will at least be in the final 3, I think there could be a surprise winner in Alexa Bliss. I think Belair will stick with the tag division for the foreseeable future - her and Naomi are growing on me - but she deserves a push after her babysitting run with Cargill where she (who is more experienced and skilled in every way) took the back seat.
My personal preference would be for a surprise NXT women's winner, though: Grace, Vaquer, Jade, Perez, or Jordan - although, I think Jordan has a year left to cook in NXT because she kinda has that little sister thing (or a Ricochet lack of attitude) thing going, but unlike Ricochet she's getting a lot better.

For Mens, Punk and Sami are the only two I can think of that are obvious.
A shock win by Jacob Fatu is a possibility.
None of the men's wrestlers in NXT are ready yet, Trick Williams or Oba Femi both have potential for 2026 and onward, Je'Von Edwards is a phenom, the most naturally gifted wrestler in WWE (maybe in the world) currently, but he's only 20. I think he's 2027 or later at this point. I think Ethan Page and Ridge Holland also show tremendous potential, but these guys are all clear future IC champions before moving up. Dempsey and King, second gen wrestlers, are also talented and improving, but need 2-3 years, and will probably be aiming at IC before looking at a world title. Wes Lee is incredibly gifted and is probably the most ready for the main roster of the men's division, but I feel like he's going to have the same issues that Dunne and Gable have - it would basically be a miracle if any of these guys won.

I think it would be cool to have someone from NXT win. Just to kind of show that it can happen in the future. Although I haven't really been watching NXT, so I don't know who might fit that role.

I really don't think Tiffany and Charlotte should happen yet. I think Tiffan has a lot of potential, but she's not there yet. I think the spot is too big for her right now. Frankly, I don't think she could hang with Charlotte yet. 

Jacob Fatu would be interesting. I sort of feel like the 2026 rumble might be his time though. Sometimes a surprise is the way to go. But, if they keep building him the right way, people will really want him to win next year, and then you just give them what they want. 

NXT has a lot of potential. They have an incredible women's division.

Cora Jade and Roxanne Perez vs Giulia "The Beautiful Madness" and Stephanie Vaquer "Dark Angel" - Giulia does Japanese strong style and has a lot of similarities to Asuka and won the championship at New Years Evil, Roxanne Perez was champ at this point. Vaquer is a South American women's wrestler who incorporates a variety of styles. Roxanne Perez and Cora Jade are kind of like less insane AJ Lee types.

Shotzi and Bayley are both on NXT - although, Bayley's main home is currently RAW... Shotzi, I recently found out was a contestant on the last season of Tough Enough (along with Mandy Rose, Sonja Deville, and Chelsea Green)

Shotzi leads a babyface trio featuring Tatum Paxley and Gigi Dolin (who used to go as Priscilla Kelly from back in the Mae Young Classic era).

Kelani Jordan and Sol Ruca are the two most athletic ones. Kelani Jordan tends to be on a lot more. Sol Ruca is the least experienced on the list so far, but has tons of potential.

In the men's division. Je'Von is the future... literally, he's the youngest on the roster overall, and the youngest on the men's roster by like 6-7 years.

His debut a few months back at age 19.

Je'von vs Wes Lee

Last edited by Jumpin - on 31 January 2025

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Jumpin said:

Jacob Fatu is now over, as of Saturday Night's Main Event

Jumpin said:
JWeinCom said:

I think it would be cool to have someone from NXT win. Just to kind of show that it can happen in the future. Although I haven't really been watching NXT, so I don't know who might fit that role.

I really don't think Tiffany and Charlotte should happen yet. I think Tiffan has a lot of potential, but she's not there yet. I think the spot is too big for her right now. Frankly, I don't think she could hang with Charlotte yet. 

Jacob Fatu would be interesting. I sort of feel like the 2026 rumble might be his time though. Sometimes a surprise is the way to go. But, if they keep building him the right way, people will really want him to win next year, and then you just give them what they want. 

NXT has a lot of potential. They have an incredible women's division.

Cora Jade and Roxanne Perez vs Giulia "The Beautiful Madness" and Stephanie Vaquer "Dark Angel" - Giulia does Japanese strong style and has a lot of similarities to Asuka and won the championship at New Years Evil, Roxanne Perez was champ at this point. Vaquer is a South American women's wrestler who incorporates a variety of styles. Roxanne Perez and Cora Jade are kind of like less insane AJ Lee types.

Shotzi and Bayley are both on NXT - although, Bayley's main home is currently RAW... Shotzi, I recently found out was a contestant on the last season of Tough Enough (along with Mandy Rose, Sonja Deville, and Chelsea Green)

Shotzi leads a babyface trio featuring Tatum Paxley and Gigi Dolin (who used to go as Priscilla Kelly from back in the Mae Young Classic era).

Kelani Jordan and Sol Ruca are the two most athletic ones. Kelani Jordan tends to be on a lot more. Sol Ruca is the least experienced on the list so far, but has tons of potential.

In the men's division. Je'Von is the future... literally, he's the youngest on the roster overall, and the youngest on the men's roster by like 6-7 years.

His debut a few months back at age 19.

Je'von vs Wes Lee

I'm not against NXT but it's like like... Smackdown and Raw are 5 hours together. Then at least 1/4 of the weeks there's a PLE each week. That's just a lot of wrestling.

I do try to watch the PLEs for NXT though, and more often than not enjoy them. The Sol Snatcher is the most beautiful thing I've ever seeon.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 31 January 2025

You know what? I changed my mind. I want Shana Bazzler to win. She obviously won't but she could have a great run with the right booking. Her and Rhea could have a great match.

Also watching last year's rumble and holy shit I forgot about Cargill lifting Nia Jax like it wasn't a big deal. God damn. I get why every promotion wants to book her to the moon. 

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 31 January 2025

WOW!!!

I was NOT expecting Jey to win it! He wasn't my 3rd, 4th, or even 5th guess, but here we are!
Main Event Jey Uso is going to Main Event WrestleMania!

YEET-A-MANIA!
Put that on a T-shirt! It'll make millions!
You can thank me later, WWE!

Now the question is: Who does Jey go after? Cody or Gunther?



PAOerfulone said:

WOW!!!

I was NOT expecting Jey to win it! He wasn't my 3rd, 4th, or even 5th guess, but here we are!
Main Event Jey Uso is going to Main Event WrestleMania!

YEET-A-MANIA!
Put that on a T-shirt! It'll make millions!
You can thank me later, WWE!

Now the question is: Who does Jey go after? Cody or Gunther?

yeah, when it was down to 6 and he was still in there I was like 'I love him but he's the least likely winner'. Then Reigns and Rollins were tossed, leaving Punk, Cena, Logan Paul (Gag), and Jey. I was like, okay...Logan Paul and JEy will take each other out, Cena vs Punk makes for a heckin good return....then nope! Punk tossed out immediately after.

At that point I was 100% sure it was gonna be Cena. Fairytale ending to his WWE Career. Matches Austin in wins, does one last Wrestlemania run.....because Jey's not winning it and I fucking hope Logan doesn't win it. 

Then they paired up and Logan was tossed.....just Jey and Cena. Okay, yeah underdog energy but still clearly gonna be Cena, right? 

heck though, that makes me happy. I love Rumbles most when it catapults someone like that. 

The only problem I had with Charlotte winning was that she already won once. She didn't need the boost. HEr, bayley, and Bianca were the most likely winners but I didn't want any of them to win because...you know...they won already. Get new blood in there. 

Good Men's rumble. I was pretty disappointed in all the other matches, though. The women fumbled a LOT (which sucks because WWE has the best women's division), the tag was stunningly boring considering who was in the match, and Cody vs Owens was honestly pretty bland and boring for 90% of its run, with a handful of rough looking spots and the ending sequence. 

But that men's Rumble? IT's up there for me. top 10 for sure, probably top 5. Maybe even top 3, though 2001 remains my fave and the streak from 2001-2009 were all varying degrees of amazing



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Poor Lyra 😁
I thought the women’s rumble match was a little crowded for too long. The problem when that happens is too many get lost in the mix and it feels like the match is at a standstill for too long. We got to see a lot of interaction, but almost no story to speak of. Just a lot of stuff going on in small parts of the ring, but nothing much exciting. The Royal Rumble March is great for two reasons: 1. It’s a battle Royale - and 2. It’s a gauntlet. I kinda feel like the gauntlet part of it was a bit muted - and that’s the part where standout wrestlers are built.

The men’s rumble, when Priest, Knight, Sami, Drew, Roman, Punk, and Seth all went out in like a 3 minute window, I was wondering WTF happened? Well, for those going for Sami, his brother won! 😁

Anyway, on WWE shows. I mostly prioritize NXT - and it’s the only show I regularly watch top to bottom when time’s afforded. It’s a different type of show than RAW or Smackdown. Much less hierarchical, and so it feels more like everyone’s story is important. Anyone who isn’t featured regularly are a treat when they’re on the show. But RAW and Smackdown are more focused on a few characters. Those who aren’t in the focus window are extras/jobbers, and their matches/stories feel like filler with no tension. For me, those are easier to skip. It feels like on NXT that whenever a big story happens, that it wasn’t forced, that it rose organically. IMO, Gargano and Ciampa’s story was the best in the last 10 years of WWE, one that rose to the top with a cult-like following. It happened in NXT, without needing those 20 minute promo windows.

In other words, RAW and Smackdown are more a pyramid. With some exceptions, your storyline is really only important when you’re near the top. Otherwise you’re either unimportant or have found some niche as an entertaining sideshow flair (like R Truth, Logan Paul, or LA Knight) - I feel like Penta, right now, is the exception to the rule where he’s both a big sideshow but somehow also comes off as significant.

NXT is more like a Mastaba where everyone is on the same level, and it’s just a matter of proximity to the altar or the throne. On top of that, mostly everyone has the chance to get their sideshow flair (or gimmicks) over. So, I find the shows are mostly fun beginning to end.

Look at DIY, in NXT these guys rose to the top because they have a lot of talent. But on RAW/Smackdown they’re stuck in unimportance. Their stories have no tension, no real stakes besides unimportant titles, whether they win or lose matches is inconsequential.

That’s how I see WWE.

Don’t get me wrong, I like all the shows, and understand that RAW and Smackdown are where the biggest stars are. But most of the RAW and Smackdown roster would be more fun to watch on an NXT-like show.

Another thing, NXT never gets stale. When someone gets too big, they never have the chance to lose their lustre while monopolizing the top, as they’ll be transferred to RAW/Smackdown before that happens. Sometimes they get to the top of the pyramid, but it’s a small peak; so, more often than not, they become a shell of their former selves (DIY is a probably the best example).

Last edited by Jumpin - on 02 February 2025

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.