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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 5.88%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 17.65%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 3 17.65%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 4 23.53%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 17.65%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 5.88%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 11.76%
 
Total:17

I've been rewatching old WWE stuff starting with Mania 20. Mainly while I'm on the treadmill, but sometimes just when I'm high and want to do something not too mentally demanding. I'm in the mid 2000s now, and I gotta say, it's kind of rough.



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JWeinCom said:

I've been rewatching old WWE stuff starting with Mania 20. Mainly while I'm on the treadmill, but sometimes just when I'm high and want to do something not too mentally demanding. I'm in the mid 2000s now, and I gotta say, it's kind of rough.

Yeah, I think that’s when the show really went downhill, but I don’t have a huge memory from that era. It was in that era that I went from watching the show regularly to only watching Velocity or something with any kind of regularity.

It’s kind of like the show lost momentum and energy almost immediately after the “Get the F Out” campaign. Maybe it was just the brand name brainwashing on my part, but going from WWF Attitude to World Wrestling Entertainment seemed to snap something off. The era wasn’t without its highlights (Lesnar, rapping Cena, and such); it might just be me, but I went from being invested in all the storylines around that time, to finding most of the show being filler (like back in 97/early 98… maybe not quite that bad).

Tag team stuff really fell off around this time. It went from being Edge and Christian, The Hardy Boyz, the Dudleyz, DX, even T&A to the teams they could put together to feed to the bigger singles stars collectives (Benoit/Jericho, Evolution, etc…). Edge and Christian were an highlight with their promo and in-ring cowardly antics and chair shots, the Hardy Boyz were a highlight with their high flying stuff, the Dudleys putting people through tables. They were characters as a team. When they met in the ring, it was the potential for the most high intensity match of the night. By the mid 00s, it was jobber filler.

Around that time was when the next big thing became the next big disappointment.

And so on.

I’ve spoken with people who have a lot of great memories from that era. But I think the whole Benoit/Eddie heights, and even the short lived Kerwin White dark comedy gimmick, were the exceptions to the rule.

I can’t speak for anything between about the murder suicide and the pipe-bomb promo. I quit, and didn’t pay any attention to the brand. The murder-suicide was the piano that broke the camels back.

That said, I think the two biggest improvement they made were NXT and the Mae Young Classic. Both of those built the foundation for the current era. Opening up all sorts of new avenues that reversed WWE’s declining fortunes. The WWE Network played a big role, and Netflix is the next big step. I’m hoping that it’ll eventually become the new home for the WWE Network library - simplifying everything.

On a side note, I’m also a fan of the cannabis + WWE mix. Although, I’ve started watching Mad Men on Netflix as well under the same influence.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Holy shit, I just watched Kevin fucking Federline cost Cena a match. I completely forgot John Cena had a rivalry with the dude that banged Britney Spears. In fact, I had completely purged Kevin Federline from my memory. If I did not watch this event, I would likely have never ever thought of Kevin Federline again in my life.



Just a few things from the past couple of shows (I haven't watched No Mercy or RAW yet).

The WWE is beginning to feel like the WORLD Wrestling Federation. But I'm wondering if they're going to go through with their European and Eastern (Japan? or maybe East Asia & Australian/Oceanian) divisions?

As a note, Andrade and Carmello Hayes rule the Midgard (that's an auto-correct from "midcard", I'm amused enough to leave it), they can take a dead crowd and get them in a roar by the end of the match everywhere in the world. And they do it with the simplest storyline "You beat me last time, now I will beat you!"

I'd have liked to see Fyre and Dawn retain as I'm less a fan of the singles wrestler combo tag teams, although I understand this is mostly so we can have Jade Cargill as a star before she's ready to be an actual singles competitor. Bianca deserves a lot of credit for taking care of this - because it's important. With Jade, because of her star power, NXT wasn't an option for WWE - despite probably what she needed (a good 2-4 years). It seems (to some extent) that WWE learned some lessons with Ronda, who they basically destroyed by exposing her areas of inexperience while shoving her to the front with only a few months.

Punk vs McIntyre wasn't particularly something I thought I wanted to see. I want Punk in the bloodline feud, not dicking around with Rollins and McIntyre post-Summerslam, but DAMN that was a fun match. Loved the sharpshooter, given Bret was a wrestling god among German fans back in the 1990s, I wonder how many in attendance remember that era?

My favourite match of the show was probably Priest and Rhea vs Liv Morgan and Dirty Dom. Liv Morgan has had a ridiculously big hill from her time in NXT, to the Riott Squad (which I was a big fan of) to her current place. Her longtime feud with Rhea (going back, what 2-3 years now?) is on the level of E&C vs the Hardy Boyz (and later including the Dudleyz) back in the day. That's how to do it, that's how to keep a feud fresh.

Orton had a ridiculous 18 minute entrance, they replayed the song like 6 times :D
That was a good match as well.

Speaking of Liv Morgan and the Riott Squad, I was reminded of this clip:

EDIT: had RAW thoughts here, but I think I'll do a full post + other comments.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 03 September 2024

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:

Just a few things from the past couple of shows (I haven't watched No Mercy or RAW yet).

The WWE is beginning to feel like the WORLD Wrestling Federation. But I'm wondering if they're going to go through with their European and Eastern (Japan? or maybe East Asia & Australian/Oceanian) divisions?

As a note, Andrade and Carmello Hayes rule the Midgard (that's an auto-correct from "midcard", I'm amused enough to leave it), they can take a dead crowd and get them in a roar by the end of the match everywhere in the world. And they do it with the simplest storyline "You beat me last time, now I will beat you!"

I'd have liked to see Fyre and Dawn retain as I'm less a fan of the singles wrestler combo tag teams, although I understand this is mostly so we can have Jade Cargill as a star before she's ready to be an actual singles competitor. Bianca deserves a lot of credit for taking care of this - because it's important. With Jade, because of her star power, NXT wasn't an option for WWE - despite probably what she needed (a good 2-4 years). It seems (to some extent) that WWE learned some lessons with Ronda, who they basically destroyed by exposing her areas of inexperience while shoving her to the front with only a few months.

Punk vs McIntyre wasn't particularly something I thought I wanted to see. I want Punk in the bloodline feud, not dicking around with Rollins and McIntyre post-Summerslam, but DAMN that was a fun match. Loved the sharpshooter, given Bret was a wrestling god among German fans back in the 1990s, I wonder how many in attendance remember that era?

My favourite match of the show was probably Priest and Rhea vs Liv Morgan and Dirty Dom. Liv Morgan has had a ridiculously big hill from her time in NXT, to the Riott Squad (which I was a big fan of) to her current place. Her longtime feud with Rhea (going back, what 2-3 years now?) is on the level of E&C vs the Hardy Boyz (and later including the Dudleyz) back in the day. That's how to do it, that's how to keep a feud fresh.

Orton had a ridiculous 18 minute entrance, they replayed the song like 6 times :D
That was a good match as well.

Speaking of Liv Morgan and the Riott Squad, I was reminded of this clip:

I don't love what they're doing with Jade. I get why they're doing it, but it's just that there are so few spots on the PLEs since they are doing smaller cards. And there are so many talented people not on the show. I would have put the tag title match on Smackdown and given some more experienced people a shot here. I was very impressed with Alba Fyre and Alba Dawn though. I think the title is technically unified with the NXT women's tag title, so they should do some stuff in NXT with it. Just not a ton of women's teams on the main roster. 

I thought Cody vs Owens was the best match of the night which surprised me. I think the build was a little weird, but the crowd treated this like Rock Hogan, and it made a huge difference. Drew vs Seth was also very good I thought, better than their Summer Slam encounter.

HHH's style seems to be really building feuds to the big four PPVs. The ones in between are a bit fillery. Dependably fun shows, but with relatively little intrigue. It helps that they're doing those shows outside of the US, because the crowds have really helped elevate the events. We'll see how the strategy works out in the long run. 



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I'm loving all these international PLE shows.

Rumor states that they are cutting down on house shows which means more resting/free time for the wrestlers.



As a note (watching No Mercy). I think it’s funny how much they inflate the size of Oba Femi: “6 feet 6” and then have him next to Tony D’Angelo, who is 6 feet 0, and have him barely taller.

The guy is huge, but he’s obviously no taller than six feet 3 or 4.

Giulia showed up in WWE at No Mercy to stare down Roxanne Perez. For those unfamiliar with her, she's the top Japanese women's wrestler specializing in a similar stiff-looking style made famous by Asuka. Speaking of which, it's not unreasonable to expect her to be the second coming of Asuka.

Here's her style:


Last edited by Jumpin - on 04 September 2024

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

The new guy, Joe Tessitore, really reminds me of Gene Okerlund. The dude rings ultra-professional. I'm a fan so far. Also, in high action moments, he slips into intensity Michael Cole style.
Also, Wade Barret is a great pairing. I forget if he explained if he was a sub-in for McAfee, or if he's a permanent part of the team. If permanent, I wonder if they'll go to a three piece on Netflix when Pat McAfee returns?


More from RAW:

95% sure Jade and Belair end with Belair turning on Jade and starting a big feud - probably right after they lose the belts.

Bronson Steiner is getting very good at promos and presence. That one with Bronson Strowman who is injured after a battle with Bronson Reed was short and effective. Apparently he's a babyface in Canada.

Bret's out here! I was hoping to see CM Punk and Bret Hart in the ring together. Sami coming out in the Gaudreau jersey won't be topped tonight, IMO.

Natalya, Vega, and Valkyria are three different nationalities, but have the same personality.

Drew approaching Barret was a fun moment. Reminded me of Taz bullying the announce team back in the day. The writing is getting more fun, and the pacing is getting better than it was a couple years ago.
But, I want to see Drew and CM Punk wrap up after this. I think Drew vs. Priest could be a fun program, Punk should move on up to Gunther, although it would be cool to see him get involved with the Bloodline during the next Wrestlemania season, or maybe starting after Survivor Series.

Pete Dunne and Sami Zayn both have crazy athleticism and (despite their smaller sizes) look like legitimate matches against bigger opponents. I think the only other smaller guy that comes close to them in that regard is Balor or Tyler Bate--where the fuck is Tyler Bate??? Dude is probably pound for pound the strongest guy in all pro-wrestling, guy was able to scoop slam Priest and Walter, even when Walter was still a lot heavier.

Anyway, decent RAW, but I think I enjoyed last week's NXT a little more, and I was definitely looking forward to NXT the most of this weeks shows - but, I won't be able to watch it until at least tomorrow, probably Thursday.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 10 September 2024

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

That new logo lol



Been a fan of Stevie Richards since the 1990s when he was in ECW and on Sunday Night Heat before moving up to RTC, and continued being a fan of his through the Stevie Night Heat era, and then I kind of lost touch before rediscovering him through his online tech show back in 2017, when he declared his support for the Nintendo Switch - particularly liking the same controller configuration I do (the split joy con controller mode). He probably ties with K/R Kwik/Truth as the best aged guy from the Attitude era.

Charles Wright, IMO, has a long history of being a complete dumbass in his interviews. Looks like in his 60s he's starting to grow up.
While I agree that the "Godfather" was a fun gimmick for 99/00, how long would it have really lasted? I still remember when the WWE tried to resurrect the Ho-Train Godfather, and it came off as feeling very dated and lame, and the crowds didn't give a crap, and they pulled the plug in like 4-6 weeks, or cut back the frequency of it considerably. Of course, it might have been one of those things where if they kept it up it would have kept going, but because 2002 (or whenever) people were already mostly over the shock culture era (that thrived 97-2001) they didn't want to get back onboard the reboot.

Last edited by Jumpin - 1 day ago

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.