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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 5.88%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 17.65%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 3 17.65%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 4 23.53%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 17.65%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 5.88%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 11.76%
 
Total:17
Jumpin said:

This post is a bit of a meander of a post across a few topics, mainly surrounding CM Punk.

This week’s RAW was really entertaining. This is starting to feel like the Attitude era again in terms of the level of heat on the show. For the first time in years, I actually want to go to a wrestling show. There’s a lot to talk about, Becky/Nia, which began years ago, and the last time I was watching WWE regularly. So, it kind of feels like they’re tailoring a show for us older fans coming back.

But the big story is CM Punk’s return. This RAW solidified how much bigger this return was, it’s to the point that this feels like true Return and AEW was the warm up. The amount of heat that promo had reminded me of how I felt about The Rock vs Triple H, Bret vs Shawn Michaels an era when I could emotionally buy into WWF’s narratives. The best part about it is this is only chapter 1 for the CM Punk Return era (not sure a real name for it yet, Endeavour era sounds a bit too corporate).

This is the era where the next true big stars are going to be made, because Brock, Punk, and Orton are all in their 40s, and WWE is long overdue for the next crop of transcendent talent (or people that are recognizable beyond the pro-wrestling fandom).

As I was saying, Seth Rollins is only chapter 1, and it will lead into the real big and more obvious feud: CM Punk vs Roman Reigns ft. Paul Heyman - a story so well set up it writes itself, this will have to have Heyman opposed to Punk because it will help make a later reconciliation far more compelling. That reconciliation could lead to a feud with Triple H, another story with the setup already written - the climactic feud of the foreseeable future, which might be as much as 2.5 years down the road. Of course, I don’t know what WWE will do, but that’s how I see the big story arcs going with some smaller ones in between. I can see CM Punk being really interested in that storyline in 2024-2026, even though he wasn’t in 2013-2014. Or maybe that chapter can be a Triple H and CM Punk alliance against some other Endeavour authority that brings up all of that animosity they have - or that Endeavour feud can be the fourth big chapter after Punk vs Triple H (will he be able to do matches? I’m aware he had some serious health concerns) - an alliance and feud for the ages, perhaps even more shocking than Austin and McMahon teaming up - it could be to wrestling as Octavian and Antony teaming up to take down Brutus and Cassius was to the Roman Empire - Brutus figured he’d take advantage of the feud between Octavian and Antony, and then was shocked when the two teamed up to wage war against him. Smaller chapters in between could include Punk vs Cody, MJF coming to WWE and feuding with Punk (not sure there are many other compelling feuds from AEW guys beyond him besides other old guy, where MJF has a long future ahead).

The elephant in the room: how much of a dumb fuck is Tony Khan? A perfect storyline, with real heat, falls right into his lap, with multiple feuds involved with tremendous heat, and he fires the only guy who can make all that happen? That’s what killed AEW, why it’s been in free fall decline. Such a ton of wasted potential. They could have been a legitimate competitor against WWE for years to come. Not now. So, from what I’m hearing, at that in the London event AEW didn’t provide any info, accommodations, or transportation for Punk—basically their main character. A few months ago, AEW could be compared to WCW, and now the very suggestion feels like giving them too much credit. That said, AEW got Punk back in WWE and that’s no small thing. Punk returning to WWE has the bigger potential than Punk remaining in AEW, so as a fan, I think Tony Khan’s fuck up of the century is what resulted in the shot in the cheek WWE needed. What’s the future for AEW? What we know is that with a guy as spoiled stupid as Tony Khan, they have the financial resources, but not the creative resources to ever produce a major star. They’re more like a sandbox for wrestlers to build a resume, and show what WWE can do with them.

The simple fact is that they have the least experienced person in control. That is rarely a recipe for success. 

It has been clear from the beginning he is being taken for a ride. Most of the people he listens to just want to do what they think is fun regardless of whether or not it is... ahem, best for business. People were so enthusiastic about the concept of an actual alternative to the WWE that they were willing to look past a lot of things, but that initial excitement has worn off and people are starting to acknowledge the flaws. The situation with Punk was just a symptom, not the actual problem. 



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AEW World's End was fun to go to in person. Dunno if it was a good event to watch at home. Edge and Christian was the only match I'd recommend anyone go out of their way to watch. Sending Jericho out there was not a good decision.



I thought it was gonna be Jack Perry who was gonna be the devil.



BasilZero said:

I thought it was gonna be Jack Perry who was gonna be the devil.

I think Jack Perry still has go away heat. Even the people who are siding against Punk, I think they recognize that the whole thing hurt the company, and Perry was a big part of it. Adam Cole would have been fine except I think they drew it out too long due to the Punk situation, injuries etc. The story just went too long for the payoff.

WWE Day One was ok. Ivy Nile vs Rhea Ripley was great. Unfortunately Giovanni Vinci (one of the imperium guys) took a nasty dropkick to the head, but the medical team was immediately on it and called the match, which is what should be done. Wonder if WWE would do the same if it was a main event match. Mcyntyre vs Rollins was great... but I'm kind of tired of Rollins title reigns.

Pretty much all the champions, except the tag champions, have had really long reigns. Rollins and Rhea are getting close to a year, Gunther close to 2, Reigns at like 3+. I think it's better than having too many short reigns, but there has to be a happy medium. Been like six months since we've seen a meaningful title change. Can't save them all for Mania. 



While some people saw the Attitude era as a little ridiculous with the belt transitions; in reality, it was Triple H between summer 1999 and Spring 2000. Rock's babyface championship era was from Spring 2000 until Wrestlemania 2001 - they broke those reigns up into 3-4 pieces with a bit of overlap in Spring 2000 (A bit of back and forth belt trading saw Triple H's era ending about 2 months after the Rock's championship era began). I liked it, it always felt the champion was never safe despite having a fairly lengthy eras - but, it's fair to note (maybe it's just me, anyone else want to comment on my following claim?), 3-4 months in the Attitude era felt about a year in any other period.

Long unbroken reigns can be interesting as a novelty: Asuka's long reign was a lot of fun at the time, but the streak was a major part of that story. However, when it's done multiple times on multiple belts it starts to get old.

On another note, Dutch Mantell politely calling Flair out on his bullshit about wrestling politics:



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Jumpin said:

While some people saw the Attitude era as a little ridiculous with the belt transitions; in reality, it was Triple H between summer 1999 and Spring 2000. Rock's babyface championship era was from Spring 2000 until Wrestlemania 2001 - they broke those reigns up into 3-4 pieces with a bit of overlap in Spring 2000 (A bit of back and forth belt trading saw Triple H's era ending about 2 months after the Rock's championship era began). I liked it, it always felt the champion was never safe despite having a fairly lengthy eras - but, it's fair to note (maybe it's just me, anyone else want to comment on my following claim?), 3-4 months in the Attitude era felt about a year in any other period.

Long unbroken reigns can be interesting as a novelty: Asuka's long reign was a lot of fun at the time, but the streak was a major part of that story. However, when it's done multiple times on multiple belts it starts to get old.

On another note, Dutch Mantell politely calling Flair out on his bullshit about wrestling politics:

I think it's just a matter of how we perceive time differently when we're younger. Like, the N64 era feels like it lasted an eternity, and the Switch feels like it just came out last week. 



So Killian Kross got himself a new stable.

This is the last chance he'll likely get.

Too bad he's feuding against Bobby Lashley and the Street Profits.

Both groups need to be pushed but between this feud, one is gonna sink.



BasilZero said:

So Killian Kross got himself a new stable.

This is the last chance he'll likely get.

Too bad he's feuding against Bobby Lashley and the Street Profits.

Both groups need to be pushed but between this feud, one is gonna sink.

Unfortunatley, to build up someone, someone else usually has to lose. Street Profits will be fine if they lose. For Bobby Lashley, I think unfortunately the moment has kind of passed for him to become a mega star.

Tony Khan needs to stop trying to Hinder Jinder XD.



The thing that I love about wrestling is that it is like Sega. They look at there history and they embrace it while Sony looks at there history and thinks about going to taco bell with it.



BiON!@ 

JWeinCom said:

Unfortunatley, to build up someone, someone else usually has to lose. Street Profits will be fine if they lose. For Bobby Lashley, I think unfortunately the moment has kind of passed for him to become a mega star.

Tony Khan needs to stop trying to Hinder Jinder XD.

Well I mean I have a feeling Lashley's team will win (because insider reports say that they are internally seen as a face team) when they really dont need to